Tagged With "tribunal"

Issue

Bug in tribunal display for completed ICOs review

Malkazoid ·
Hello, The new alpha rocks! So this is the first little glitch I've seen: if you go to the tribunal page, then click to display the 'Completed' appeals, you'll see the ICOs appeal listed. The ICOs niche was rejected by the tribunal as a clear duplicate of the existing ICO niche. Yet the phrase: "Voting has ended. 0% of the Tribunal voted to reject the Niche." ... appears beneath this listing on the completed appeals page. It looks like it is just a logical error in the phrasing, and probably...
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Re: Bug in tribunal display for completed ICOs review

Ted ·
The Appeals area is definitely still a work in progress. We have some improvements already in the works for that area. Because only the Tribunal has to actively use that area, it is has been a lower priority. Agree though that the current language is quite convoluted.
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Re: Allow Content Creator To Appeal Content Rejected From Niche

Emily Barnett ·
I worry about this. I think the tribunal is going to have a very large work load as it grows, for only 3%. It is the lease efficient use of time for return. Personally I think there are enough stop gaps in place. The community can vote out a bad moderator, the content maker could message the owner if abuses are taking place by the moderator, and I also think most moderator's, especially on a profitable niche are going to be motivated to keep their job, ergo do their job in accordance of the...
Suggestion

Allow Content Creator To Appeal Content Rejected From Niche

Ted ·
Originally suggested here: https://community.narrative.or...moderation-final-say The idea is that if a niche moderator rejects your content that you can appeal to the Tribunal to reverse the decision. One potential downside is that, if used frequently, the workload of the Tribunal could really increase. We might want to have some limitation as to the number of times any member could appeal a niche content rejection. We'd also want to make sure that the Tribunal decision was final... so that...
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Re: Allow Content Creator To Appeal Content Rejected From Niche

Gord ·
That depends on the return
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Re: Allow Content Creator To Appeal Content Rejected From Niche

Banter ·
I agree that it would generate too much work for the tribunal. As a side note, I hope there is something put in place to prevent someone from submitting the same content again, with the intention of getting a different moderator to approve it. Has the @Narrative team thought about that scenario?
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Re: Allow Content Creator To Appeal Content Rejected From Niche

Slaz ·
I believe that in this case the user can just appeal against the moderator who made the decision, and not the decision itself. As niches should all be clear and unique, I don't expect that many content rejects that are worth disputing over.
Conversation

GGB niche

Gaia Glee ·
Hello darlings, especially @Garden Gnome Publications, I was notified about a niche I was following that had been appealed to the Tribunal. Having voted for it, I went to see what all the fuss was about, as it remained approved by the Tribunal. As such, I decided to take preventative measures and bid on the niche myself. If I win, I shall rename it Girls Gone Crypto and adjust the description as necessary to keep things ethical. That should solve most concerns about the Reddit version and...
Issue

You can only appeal one niche per 24 hour period to the Tribunal - problematic

Christina Gleason ·
I'm currently going through every. single. page. of niches up for auction to suggest niches for people to buy that I have content already written for, and I'm noticing a lot of redundant niches got approved in the early days. I appealed one instance, but I could appeal at least 4 more right now. I'm not going to be going to back through all of these pages again tomorrow or any time soon, so I'm not going to remember all of these that should be appealed. (Off the top of my head, Activism,...
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Re: You can only appeal one niche per 24 hour period to the Tribunal - problematic

MOLLY O ·
Hi Christina, You are correct, there is a one per 24 hour limit in place for appeals right now. Sure one reason is to stop one person from spamming the tribunal with appeals. But another reason is to help the well intentioned person through the process. By submitting one appeal, they can watch how the Tribunal votes and understand the reasoning. There will certainly be cases in the future when we open up to the public that we will have people appealing for the wrong reasons. On another note,...
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Re: You can only appeal one niche per 24 hour period to the Tribunal - problematic

Christina Gleason ·
You saw through part of my reason for posting about this issue.
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Re: You can only appeal one niche per 24 hour period to the Tribunal - problematic

Slaz ·
I’ve just appealed the Poem niche. Let’s clean up as a group effort.
Reply

Re: You can only appeal one niche per 24 hour period to the Tribunal - problematic

Slaz ·
@Christina Gleason As for the other niches you mentioned: the Activists niche, I see that it was already appealed and found to be non-redundant in relation to the one for Activism. However, does the term Advocacy have any different meaning to distinguish it from Activism? I’m unfamiliar with the term.
Question

Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Christina Gleason ·
...or is there any way for us to make suggestions for changes to the Tribunal? Because BLOG and Internet social media are TERRIBLE.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Ted ·
There is currently no way to give feedback like that (directly) to the niche owner. And niche owners are the only ones that can currently edit the niche names/descriptions, as well. I think the idea of letting the community suggest niche name/description edits may have merit, but then again there are a lot of people who think that only niche owners should completely control such things. In my view, niches are a public resource and because of that you can make an argument that community input...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Christina Gleason ·
Maybe one way to handle the "tons of edit requests" problem would be to only allow one active edit request at a time per niche. If the Tribunal approves it, no one else could request another edit for... 30 days? 60 days? I'm just tossing out numbers.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
I think you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't expect people to pay narrative money to own a niche, and then turn around and say it is the a public resource and up to the community to make changes to it. if we are owners of niches, then we are owners. This doesn't seem too difficult to me at all. Join the community. Engage with it by posting, voting, and commenting on it. Then direct message the owner once we have some sort of messaging in place (hopefully beta?) Not everything...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Robert Nicholson ·
@Ted - I agree with @Emily Barnett 100%. A "like" of her post isn't strong enough. The owner should be the arbiter of any changes to the niche name or description (with approval of the Tribunal).
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Christina Gleason ·
While I see your points, I still respectfully disagree. Redundant niches are not allowed. An uninvolved niche owner ignoring their duty to make their niche discoverable in search and show some semblance of professionalism hurts anyone who wants to contribute content on that particular topic. Blogging and Social Media aren't exactly long-tail niches, so having them stuck the way they are will hurt contributors. I wouldn't be averse to a system like I described above, where community members...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
Ownership is ownership. You cannot have it both ways. If I pay for something it is mine. I may allow it to be accessed by the community as a resource, because it serves us both, to do that, but it still has been bought and paid for, there for the decision on the name and description is mine to make. If it is redundant to someone else's previously purchased niche, then we have a mechanism in place to appeal that. But if the community prefers better grammar or description, that should be...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
I also think it is important to remember that owners ARE part of the community as well. They are not this MIA delinquent landlord type whom are out to mess up individual's content plans. Narrative has people of different education levels, different language levels, different levels of deep thought, and different activity levels, all participating in Narrative. Of course we all would love everything to be at University level writing, where everybody has a deep handle on the English language.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
Won't belabour this because we've said it all before... but in my opinion we should be looking at this first and foremost from the perspective of quality, so I tend to agree with Christina more. People don't have to have university level English because we have a community of people who are willing to help. Ownership is not incompatible with bylaws that upload quality. In the desirable neighbourhoods, cities, and countries of this world, it is common that owners of real estate still have to...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Christina Gleason ·
Good to see you back again, @Malkazoid . Your absence had been noticed!
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
I don't think anyone has suggested a laissez-faire fair approach @Malkazoid , quite to opposite. But @Ted went down the path of entrepreneurialism in the white papers, by making to niches purchasable. He went further, when after you and then I both campaigned for TRUE OWNERSHIP. Which we achieved. I am in full agreement that bylaws are a part of maintaining quality controls. And Narrative has those bylaws in place. We voted on niches to approve or not approve, prior to niches being...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
I don't get it. You'd be furious if someone corrected a spelling or grammar mistake for you?
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
I would vote this comment down if i could. Imagine if you your neighbor painted their house pink. you hated it. told them so, and still they ignored you. So when they went away to visit their sick mother, you decided to make it better quality and painted it blue, because after all you are part of the community. You don't have a right to do that. You didn't buy the house. You can report it to the bylaw officers. They can issue a ticket if it actually breaks a bylaw. that is it. Niches should...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Christina Gleason ·
@Emily Barnett , Heads up that two of your "niches I own" have broken links in your support community profile. I was taking a look at your niche descriptions, and I don't think anyone could reasonably suggest and get approval for the descriptions in your niches, because YOU DID YOUR JOB as an owner to make them good ones. It's the completely absent niche owners I'm worried about, the ones who will literally never come back to respond to feedback because they just want their 10%. I don't know...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Christina Gleason ·
But a house is private property. I don't invite people to come in and decorate my house and contribute to it so that I can (somehow) profit from their efforts. My house is not a workspace for people to come and show off their artwork or add to my book collection that doubles as a library or public reading room. I don't think your analogy works, because a private home is different than a public showcase.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
Bylaws commonly impose standards on what is done with private property. True ownership was always expressed by me, in the early days, as the ability to accrue capital gains by being able to sell niches. I never meant to support some sort of protection from owned niches having their descriptions improved if the owner goes MIA. Anyway, as I said, I'd support that the process happen in communication with owners whenever possible, as a collaborative effort, but with the authority for the quality...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
@Christina Gleason When we very first began, we didn't have spelling, or description as a legitimate reason for voting down a niche. That was only introduced months after the process began. So hopefully that clears up your confusion how this happened. @Malkazoid Personally no I wouldn't have a problem with my spelling mistakes being changed, but that isn't the point that is at risk with this suggestion that the community can make changes if after 7 days they get no response. Surely you can...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
That's what is being suggested. Bylaws can force you to modify the way your property presents, to align with what the bylaws allow. We're not proposing that any random community member can come and 'repaint' your niche. We're proposing some form of authority - akin to bylaw officers - for Narrative. And if your niche description has spelling mistakes or grammar mistakes, or has a scope mismatch between name and description, they should have the authority to work with you to fix such problems.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
It already is an issue. Christina has been saying this repeatedly. There is no guarantee that there will be a way to message owners. I seem to recall the team saying that won't exist at launch. They seem to not be putting much emphasis on the social aspect of Narrative for now. In any event, I think we should step back and recognise that a systemic problem requires a systemic fix. Just hoping it will all get cleared up by individuals making suggestions to niche owners - is a recipe for mixed...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
that is what the tribunal is. they are the by law. Actually yes, @Christina Gleason did suggest that if nobody responded in say 7 days, the changes could be made. I think there is just too much talk about policing grammar. Just send the owner a message, on how to change it. If they are smart they will take the advice. So many rules.....have some faith in people.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
No - they aren't. They have made very clear they do not view it as their role to make corrections. Not sure what Christina said, but personally I would favour an official quality control team - and yes, if the owner doesn't respond, they should be able to make fixes anyway. 7 days might be too short, but the buck has to stop somewhere, and sometime. "If they are smart"... Not everyone is. Lets be real here. It isn't even a question of smarts in many cases: it is a question of whether the...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
Bowing out now - that's all my Narrative time gone up in smoke! Thanks for the discussion.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
The team would be foolish to not put in some way of sending a message to people. I don't believe that they are stepping back from the social aspect of it. I haven't gotten that impression at all. I am not trying to be argumentative with either of you. I just have faith that these "lesser quality" niches that you refer to will either get fixed, or sink rapidly to the bottom. I don't equate Narrative to an airplane where "poor quality" will result in no lift of the wings, and result in the...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
I get that....i have been in my studio for an hour already.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Garden Gnome Publications ·
Okay, I've had a couple of brandies so forgive me if this sounds stupid. I skipped over a few comments to chime in and I'll come back to read the rest tomorrow. I think this discussion of "niche ownership" is somewhat passé. When you "buy" a niche, you are technically only leasing it. You get it for a year, then you have to renew it. So, what happens if someone decides not to renew the niche? Who controls it then? If a niche remains "unowned" for a period of time because it is "pink," who...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
@Ted is there plans to have some sort of messaging system? I cannot believe that it wouldn't. Narrative would hardly be competitive with out it. But giving the group some clarity on this topic, would help dissipate anxieties that are flowing about the need to control the quality of people's purchased niche's. Thank you.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
My analogy perfectly works. You can invite people over to your house all the time. if people don't like your house they can suggest you fix it up, or they can refuse to visit. And as the house owner, you can take the suggestion and improve your house if you value having company.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
Emily - I think you are focusing only on how your analogy works, and ignoring how Christina is showing you the important ways in which it does not work. It bears repeating for the nth time that niches are unique, and have public utility. You can try to ignore this as much as you want, it remains true. A person who disapproves of how a niche presents isn't just getting a negative impression of the one niche. They're comparing it to categories on other sites - ones that do have quality...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
You left out: What percentage of people will feel entitled to the niche, because they are a regular contributor, and therefore start changing the niche to reflect more of what they want it to be, through enforced community changes? What you and Christina are proposing has flaws as well. Those ones seem worse to me. It hasn't even launched yet. I don't think Narrative is going to spontaneously combust on April 4th because we have some poorly crafted niches. I just don't. Youtube, instgram,...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
How would that be a danger? If there is a dedicated QC team, how do you propose they be manipulated by individual regular contributors, and bent to their will? I've been really clear and simple in my proposal: a QC team that targets spelling mistakes, grammar mistakes and mismatches in scope. That doesn't sound like a body that is going to start kowtowing to individual desires to modify the intent of a niche. I've even been really specific in saying the QC team should work WITH niche owners...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
@Malkazoid you didn't debunk anything, you just said that it wouldn't happen. I can say the same thing to your questions. "that won't happen." There i have debunked your claims. A QC team is just as suggestive as, the tribunal, and the niche approval process, which we have seen over and over again, don't always get it right. In fact, in my opinion there is already a niche suggestion at the moment that I think demonstrates more of my point than yours. People do a lot of funny things to be...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
Emily: we've been over this. The Tribunal's role, as they see it, is not to make any fixes to niches. So why are you now saying a QC team, whose explicit role would be to arrive at, and make fixes with the niche owner, is just as 'suggestive' as the Tribunal? I've said really clearly I'm proposing that the QC Team should have authority to make fixes within the tight definition of spelling mistakes, grammar mistakes, and scope mismatches. I feel like a lot of what I'm saying isn't sinking in.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Garden Gnome Publications ·
This has been a very enlightening discussion. Both sides are making good points, but there is a real-world example of this problem riding through the Niche approval process right now. Unfortunately, it looks like I'm going to be banned from suggesting more niches for another week because of a silly little typo (and as anal as I am about language, I'm ashamed I made it). I suggested the Poetics niche , which is likely to be unprofitable and only garner the interest of a few people on the...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Christina Gleason ·
I just want to add that my "if the niche owner doesn't respond in 7 days..." was an arbitrary length of time I chose. Narrative would certainly take multiple factors into account before actually deciding upon a reasonable amount of time to wait for a niche owner to respond.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Christina Gleason ·
@Garden Gnome Publications I made my vote too late to try to change anyone's minds with my comment on Poetics. I think it's a shame not only that you get the time-out that comes with a rejected niche, but also that "Poetics" itself is unavailable as a niche name for all of the foreseeable future.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
Thanks @Garden Gnome Publications for the reminder that the lack of any direction from the team about even the intent to correct mistakes in the future, is causing many of us to feel like voting is the only way to insure quality. Simply stating that a QC team will be put in place to fix simple mistakes would give us license to relax and vote in niches that can easily be fixed later. That would go a long way. But the best time for that was months ago, before the Team got too busy with trying...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
There is nothing wrong with suggesting Poetic Techniques @Garden Gnome Publications btw I just changed my vote because @Bart is right with his comment. Hopefully more people see his comment and change it. Maybe start a new thread and campaign for votes. I have seen this done quite effectively in the past. @Malkazoid People defer to others, and definitely some people seem to have influence on this platform. We have seen it in both levels discussed here, niche voting, and I believe also in...
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