Tagged With "tribunal"

Topic

NICHESQUATTING

mrgoodsett ·
How about nichesquatting? like cybersquatting. I think I just COINED my first phrase!!! If NICHESQUATTING ends up on WIKIPEDIA I will gladly take credit for it...lol. Is it a possibility with the less popular niches?
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Re: NICHESQUATTING

Ted ·
Well, one good thing is that if you squat and do not put any moderators in place, you will not earn any revenue. So, you have incentive to make sure you have some management in place for the niche. In addition, there an an annual fee to be paid to maintain the niche ownership. Still, I think we do need to consider these sorts of potential issues longer term... and that is why the Tribunal and the Council will have a huge role in coming up with tweaks to the system as they warrant.
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Re: NICHESQUATTING

Harj ·
And potetialy (Maybe) there might be the opportunity to sell your Niche in the future. Esspecially if you have changed your mind and its better that just sitting on it. But that said even if you sit on it and do nothing you are holding it and your capital is tied up your capital that you would bid and have paid to get it. Very costly but we have to respect Private property or it will put into Jeopardy the whole system and value of niches even Narrative, if we just take it of them with force...
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Re: NICHESQUATTING

Harj ·
MrGoodsett remember Squatting or squatters and stealing someone else property for there own benefits. Aka theft. Founders are using there own capital to buy the property/niche. Not theft! Aka not niche squatting.
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Re: NICHESQUATTING

mrgoodsett ·
Typing to fast...I do mean SQUATTING!!! Thanks Harj.
Topic

Censorship

Eduardo Hernández ·
I was reading a different post, and got a bit doubtful about this particular line that described the Personal Journals: " Personal Journals may be suspended by the Tribunal for any reason. (And note that users may report Personal Journal content to the Tribunal.) " So, let me get this straight: if somebody stumbles upon my PERSONAL content and, for any reason, decides to report it, I will be kicked out or suspended from Narrative? In the words of my beloved Charles Bukowski, "What the...
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Re: Censorship

Rosemary ·
The whole goal of Narrative is to not have a backroom group mysteriously banning or deleting with no explanation. That's the system in place now, on most social networks. What we want is free expression, with some mechanism to denote content that may be NSFW, so that those who are easily offended can choose not to see that content. The Tribunal will ultimately be made up of community members who are elected (and who can be removed) by the will of the community. Hopefully they will reflect...
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Re: Censorship

Eduardo Hernández ·
Thanks for clarifying this, @Rosemary . I am an advocate for freedom of speech, specially as an existential erotica writer. I do, on the other hand, condemn hate speech, and all types of violence towards an specific group of people. So, if I understand Narrative's position, you won't censure anything that doesn't crosses these kind of lines, right?
Topic

Rebuttal to appealed Niche

mrgoodsett ·
Is there any way to submit a rebuttal to a Niche idea which has been appealed by another Narrative member? The Niche is under review by the Tribunal currently.
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Re: Rebuttal to appealed Niche

Brian Lenz ·
Hi @mrgoodsett , There currently isn't any way to submit a rebuttal to an appeal, but you're free to share any thoughts you have here on the community. You can be assured the Tribunal will do its best to consider all angles in terms of niche validity regardless. Thanks, Brian
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Re: Rebuttal to appealed Niche

mrgoodsett ·
Thanks again @Brian Lenz , useful info as always.
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Re: Rebuttal to appealed Niche

Brian Lenz ·
You're welcome!
Topic

Does a Tribunal overruling on a Niche impact reputation?

Dana ·
In cases where the community votes incorrectly, it seems in my best interests to simply go with the flow and vote for 'the winning team' rather than vote correctly and take a reputation hit. I get the feeling that this 'gaming' the voting system is happening-- maybe not always maliciously, but to save time and boost rep. So my question using a real example: the Niche Homeopathic Treatment looks set to be accepted by the community at 12 (for)- 2 (against). Even if the remaining 8 votes go...
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Re: Does a Tribunal overruling on a Niche impact reputation?

Michael ·
@Ted Are the Tribunal details on how they came to the decision made open and transparent to the community, or is it "top-down"? As mentioned in the Narrative Manifesto: "We adopt a decentralized approach; to replace top-down management of users and content with a system where the entire community is involved in setting standards, curating content, and reducing the influence of bad actors." To avoid acting as "Big Social" I think Tribunals will have to be naturally open processes to allow the...
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Re: Does a Tribunal overruling on a Niche impact reputation?

Michael ·
Hmm, good question. I'm noticing the same thing. Someone created a Niche called "Daily Fantasy Sports" but in the subheading stated that "this also includes e-sports," which I know to be completely wrong, and the appeal failed. (My brother is a HUGE Esports & Fantasy league guy, and I can assure you, they're not the same thing) It's as if people are creating niche titles, but then trying to 'dragnet' other subjects in the Niche subheading, even if unintentionally, because they're unaware...
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Re: Does a Tribunal overruling on a Niche impact reputation?

Malkazoid ·
Hi @Dana , Excellent question. What is in your best interest is to vote against the redundant niche, AND to appeal the community voted decision if the niche is approved by the community. Make a little note somewhere to make the appeal. In this manner, you vote according to your true belief rather than pursuing the sometimes misguided wisdom of the crowd, AND you do the network a service by making sure the problem of the approved redundant niche makes it before the Tribunal, while putting all...
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Re: Does a Tribunal overruling on a Niche impact reputation?

Ted ·
The quick reply is that we are still tweaking the reputation formulas and spec, so there is no definite answer on this question. Further, it's doubtful that we will publish every nuance of how reputation is determined, because doing so would lead to more gaming. The longer answer is that the example you gave is a great example of how complex some issues are. Ultimately, our goal is to have a reputation system that reflects final truth (i.e., Tribunal opinions should influence reputation) AND...
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Re: Does a Tribunal overruling on a Niche impact reputation?

Banter ·
The main issue we are finding with Niche creation is the duplication hazard...all of the other standard rejection reasons are pretty obvious. I know the Narrative team has tried to do a simple name match to show potential dupes...but this clearly isn't enough. The example above is the reason why: Homeopathic Treatment isn't showing 'Homeopathy' under similar Niches. I think most people are using this as a guideline while voting, or will simply rely on the legwork of another narrator who has...
Topic

Shopping vs online shopping - a Tribunal appeal question

Malkazoid ·
Hello, @MOLLY O recently posted an excellent blog post regarding how to suggest viable niches. A quote from this article: I recently submitted an appeal to the Tribunal regarding this niche: https://alpha.narrative.org/niche/shopping The description of the niche is clearly mismatched: "all article related to shopping online" The problem exhibited by the description mismatch for the Shopping niche is exactly the type of problem warned against in Molly's article, and yet...
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Re: Shopping vs online shopping - a Tribunal appeal question

Malkazoid ·
Thanks Brian - that does help me understand your process. You did leave out one of the rejection criteria that is available to voters: "The niche name/description is unclear/incorrect." This is grounds for rejection, and it describes the current issue very well. I'd like to make a recommendation. I agree whole-heartedly that rejecting the niche is not optimal. But I feel equally strongly that leaving it in its current state is undesirable. More so than rejecting the niche. After all, if...
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Re: Shopping vs online shopping - a Tribunal appeal question

Brian Lenz ·
Hi @Malkazoid , I can see where you're coming from here. I think this is a matter of standards vs. best practices. The Tribunal (and community!) really should only be rejecting niches based on the criteria set by the system: unique, no profanity, no misspellings, English, and complies with the TOS. I don't see imperfection (or lack of perfect consistency) as a standard that must be upheld. There is gray area and margin for error. Some niche descriptions are sub-optimal and may not follow...
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Re: Shopping vs online shopping - a Tribunal appeal question

Malkazoid ·
Exactly - and there is something inherently wrong with a niche going through a Tribunal appeal, diverting their attention from other things... and yet STILL coming out the other side flawed in such a blatant way. I really think the Tribunal needs to make these tweaks while they are at it. It is bad for Narrative for sloppy niches to remain, and it is a very bad look for the project to observe the sloppiness and do nothing about it.
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Re: Shopping vs online shopping - a Tribunal appeal question

Bryan ·
Not abiding by standards should be grounds for rejection for this reason... people with poorly written and/or unclear Niche descriptions MAY argue later that another Niche is violating their airspace. Hey, no fair. That's what I MEANT to say... It's a problem. Especially when the voting public is full of un-educated, or non-credentialed, voters (no offense intended).
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Re: Shopping vs online shopping - a Tribunal appeal question

Gord ·
Sounds like a good platform to campaign on for the next Tribunal election
Topic

Change in Policy: Refunds for Rejected Niche Owners

Ted ·
We've a had a couple of instances of a purchased niches being rejected by the Tribunal. The niche owners purchased the niches after they were approved by the community, so it is not fair to penalize them after it is later determined that the niche should not have been approved. Thus, we are changing our policy regarding refunds of niche ownership fees. If a niche is rejected by the Tribunal (for any reason), the niche owner will be entitled to a pro rate refund covering the canceled period.
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Re: Change in Policy: Refunds for Rejected Niche Owners

Emily Barnett ·
This is a great update. Thank you @Ted
Topic

How to appeal an approved niche that probably shouldn't have been approved?

Malkazoid ·
Hello! I think I've been able to do this in the past, but I cannot see any way to do that right now. If it is possible, can someone point me in the right direction? And if it isn't possible, why not? Thanks!
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Re: How to appeal an approved niche that probably shouldn't have been approved?

Rosemary ·
Yes, you can still do that. Go to the Niche details page (where you can see the list of actions, like when the auction ended, when the moderator elections started, etc.). Click the three dots in the top right corner. You'll see "appeal to Tribunal."
Topic

Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
@Ted I am addressing your tribunal comment here, because I cannot on the platform. This niche is a "made up" photography term, it isn't a thing. That is why i am saying it is inaccurate. The very nature of what street photography is, contradicts this description. Your comment seems to be talking about redundancy. Which is not my grounds for appeal. Wiki "Portrait photography or portraiture in photography is a photograph of a person or group of people that captures the...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
Some visual clarification. Street photography from a book on the history of street photography. Se how they are not posing for the camera. it is candid. even the guy who sees the camera is caught of guard and not posing for a photo. A Portrait taken outdoors. The subject is aware that his photo is being taken, and has readied herself for the moment. Just because this person doesn't have the correct vernacular doesn't mean that narrative doesn't have to either. We can reject the inaccurate...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
I disagree with your scenario. A portrait is collaboration between subject and photographer, based on mutual acknowledgement of the camera. Even when this happens with no verbal dialog takes place. Candid doesn't mean a natural pose, it means without knowledge. So in your scenario of the italian woman in the market, it is a candid photograph. It would become a portrait if you asked her permission, and she became aware of the exchange between you. Only the moment of surprise when a subject...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Malkazoid ·
https://www.creative-photograp...com/candid-portrait/ https://fstoppers.com/portrait...ait-photography-2996 https://digital-photography-sc...f-somebody-you-know/
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
It is hard for me to agree with that, because it splits a hair in a way that is not genuine. For example, when i owned my art gallery, I would go to my represented artists studio to take photos when they are working. Yes it is a portrait. Yes they are working, rather than sitting in stereotypical pose like sitting in a chair holding paint brushes, and touching their chin like they are deep in thought. But these more natural looking photos are not candid, the artist (subject) knows what i am...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Malkazoid ·
Pending a response from the Narrative team, here is my sense of the best way forwards. We should keep the policy of older niches having priority over newer ones, when considering redundancy, EXCEPT when the newer niche has been purchased, and the older one remains unpurchased. In this situation, this would allow @Emily Barnett 's partner to buy the more recent, better named and more clearly described Street Photography niche, and then immediately lodge an appeal for the older, less well...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
Exactly.
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Malkazoid ·
So chatting with Emily, I've come to understand the problem as follows. Street Photography is a duplicate of the older Street-Style Portrait Photography. In essence, there is no real uniqueness that properly demarcates the two. BUT the older niche has an unclear description, and trying to change that description once you buy it may well be rejected because once clearly described, it will be far more apparent that it is essentially the same as the newer, better described Street Photography...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Malkazoid ·
Thanks @Emily Barnett - that last message helps me understand where you are coming from. I respect your perception of this situation. I do however think that people won't be confused by the niche. Could the description be better - certainly... but I think it still gives a good sense of what kind of photos are intended to live there. The main issue seems to be with your binary approach to candid vs portrait, with a moment where one becomes the other, and without room for shades of grey...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
This Niche isn't called Candid Portraiture, it isn't called Candid Photography and it isn't called Street Photography. It is unclear what the direction is for the niche. It is unpurchased, after almost six months with other people, clearly looking for street photography as an active niche option, given the three other niches in street photography suggested. Well I guess we just see what happens, so far nobody has purchased it, and i think it is the description, not the desire for the niche...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Malkazoid ·
Hi Emily, can we agree that there is such a thing as a candid portrait? That seems to be the crux of this matter. Ah, ok just saw you don't agree with the term Candid Portraiture. So it sounds like it is not a clear cut situation that all photographers agree upon.
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Malkazoid ·
Hi @Emily Barnett Thanks for this in depth foray. My knowledge of photography is informal so I had to read up on some of the definitions to supplement the understanding I have carried with me through the years. The question I have, regarding your approach is this: since one of the categories of portraiture is 'candid portraiture', why can't some street photography be street portrait photography? The candid approach to a portrait favours spontaneity and can indeed take place without the...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Malkazoid ·
So the description of the niche you are downvoting is: I did look at it: I promise! I wouldn't have jumped in with such an involved response without looking at the niche under discussion! I don't see anything in this description that is incompatible with the opinion that candid street portraits are a thing. I only see a problem with this description if I subscribe to your approach, which says that a street portrait cannot be a candid one. I don't see a reason to subscribe to your approach,...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Malkazoid ·
Fantastic @MOLLY O . I can see you were able to absorb the essential takeaways from our ramblings - I'm thankful you did. It took quite a bit of @Emily Barnett and I getting lost in the details of the faulty description of this niche, before we were able to step back and focus on the systemic problem that is the real consideration. Sometimes the trees really do hide the forest.
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

MOLLY O ·
@Emily Barnett and @Malkazoid . Thanks for all this discussion on the topic. We are discussing this internally to see if we need to tweak the model around if there are two duplicates and one is Active (purchased) - who should the winner be? We are looking at all the other possible scenarios (e.g., bids occurring at same time but payment first??) before we get back to you on this so that we can address it all at the same time.
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

MOLLY O ·
@Malkazoid . I was getting a bit lost trying to understand the issue at the beginning (while learning more about photography) so I really appreciated how you distilled out the bigger issue.
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
@MOLLY O @Ted given the rules of Narrative, my only recourse was to try and get rid of the unclear niche, so that the platform can move forward on getting a niche that actually describes this lesser understood, yet very popular form of photography. I doubt that there will be buyers for either niche with the way it exists right now, under the current rules. This is part of the problem, that we have been trying to talk about in previous threads about the growing amount of parked niche...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
Agreed it is fascinating, and cannot be easy to implement. As community, I think we see the issues coming before we have an actual example because using it is what we are focused on, where you guys are using it, building it, and promoting it simultaneously. I am just glad that such an example now demonstrates the issue that we were alluding to before, and some solution can be resolved in alpha.
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

MOLLY O ·
@Emily Barnett . This is what the Alpha is for Self governance is a brand new thing we are tackling…such an interesting social experiment. Keep in mind that as we discuss this issue, we are also thinking about how rules can be automated in the future so Tribunal doesn't have to go back and research the voting history and other things.
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Christina Gleason ·
I don't think it's even necessary to remove reputation accrued from the suggestion, as there are some well thought-out niches that have remained unpurchased since I joined in the autumn, but they just aren't that popular for people who know they're limited to owning 5 niches. But purging un-purchased niches after 6 months would make it easier to rid the system of the truly awful ones that got approved anyways, and it provides an opportunity for other unpurchased niches to "hit the front...
Topic

Conflicts of interest

Malkazoid ·
Hello Fellow Narrators, I'd like to hear everyone's views on how we should deal with cases in which there are conflicts of interest between Tribunal members and decisions they have to make about appeals concerning niches they are connected to (either through ownership or moderation positions). It seems obvious that they should never find themselves making decisions on these appeals, but the question is: how do we then deal with these situations? In some cases, this might even rule out more...
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