Tagged With "Abandoned"

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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Malkazoid ·
Another thought would be to maintain a list of 'moderators on call'? On call work generally attracts higher pay, and this scenario would be no different. People who would sign up to be on this list would be people who need a little more incentive in order to be interested in moderating, or who are interested in doing so for shorter terms? A sort of moderation gig economy? When a niche finds itself in need of a moderator because it has become orphaned, the Tribunal or an algorithm could...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Malkazoid ·
So interesting to be delving into finer real case scenarios. To me, the most undesirable situation is to completely remove the niche and disassociate all content, especially if the niche has some activity: even minimal. I think at that point, the damage done might quickly rival or outweigh a lack of moderation for what might end up to be a relatively short period. Would it not be better to lock the niche so it cannot receive any new content, until it can be moderated again, but allow people...
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The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Ted ·
Hi Narrators- I'm looking for community feedback on how we should handle this scenario... Assume a niche comes up for renewal and the current owner decides not to renew. That will automatically put the niche back up on the auction block to find a new owner. What should happen if the niche does not find a buyer, however? The niche may or may not have much content associated with it. The niche also may or may not have moderators managing it. (Niche owners are REQUIRED to have moderators in...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

ClosetCrypto ·
Scenario Option- What should happen if the niche does not find a buyer, however? Possible Solution- Assuming a Niche does not sell in the General auction, I would suggest giving the moderator/s the option of privately bidding on it. If there is only 1 moderator then I think they should have the right to purchase the niche for the minimum price. If there are no moderators or if none acquire the niche, then I would suggest opening the private auction to all members of that particular niche. If...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

ClosetCrypto ·
Agreed. I do not like the idea of a niche being removed. I would much rather have it locked as @Malkazoid describes above. The successor-ship idea is very interesting. I think that may be another topic for discussion on its own.
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

mrgoodsett ·
Start the bidding process off with NO MINIMUM BID. I'm sure many bargain hunters will be active on Narrative.
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Bryan ·
I was just preparing to write a post called " Little Orphan Nichie " and make a few observations and suggestions. Once A Niche, Always A Niche If a Niche holds content, it ought to be preserved. Not everyone topic lends itself to a team of "caretakers". I realize that is how Niches have been proposed to work, but... there are infinite (presumably) potential Niches and that's a lot of middle-management. The Niche on " Dogs " might get a lot of content from dog-lovers, but not require a whole...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Ted ·
We already have plans to support a "Moderator Pool", which I see being a major component of the system. And that will be the place where moderators and channel owners can connect- moderators soliciting their services and channel owners finding talent. Thus, the moderator "gig economy" is already in the plans. That said, I don't think that solves anything in terms of the proposed scenario.
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Malkazoid ·
Can a niche be considered viable to remain unlocked if it has a moderator but no owner for a while? The moderator could approve or disapprove of new content for the interim, perhaps?
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Malkazoid ·
That sounds right to me, Bryan. Especially the part about clams (but the rest too).
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Ivan Rygaev ·
I like the idea proposed by @Malkazoid for the niche to be locked, i. e. do not allow new content but preserve the old one. The old content together with the inability to post anything new would encourage users to purchase the niche. Disassociating the content will be dangerous. Some posts, which were attached only to this niche, will be completely removed? I think we should prevent this from happening. And imagine that someone will finally purchase the niche in several months. They will get...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Malkazoid ·
Revisiting this thread now after many moons, I feel more strongly than before that solution 2 is the best, with some measures to make sure someone is still managing the niche in the interim. The General Moderator pool is an idea @Banter and I put forth months ago, which @Ted seems to be saying is part of his plans, although I'm not certain we're talking about the same concept (because Ted seems to be saying this pool wouldn't help the current scenarios being examined, whereas the General Mod...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Emily Barnett ·
I feel like I have said much on this topic in other threads, so I will be concise with my words. I think that a niche should be allowed as long as it has a moderator. Even without an owner. I don't see a downside to it. So what if it doesn't get promoted. As long as the moderator is keeping it on task to the topic. If the niche is getting rewards, that are just getting dumped into the pool, someone will buy it. Letting people post content on the topics they suggested far out weighs in...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Christina Gleason ·
Everything that @Emily Barnett and @Malkazoid said today. I have a lot of long tail content languishing on my mostly abandoned blog that I'd love to re-work for the Narrative platform, but while I've suggested the niches that they could go in, I'm not sure it makes financial sense for me to use the rest of my niche slots to buy them. (And there would still be some I couldn't buy because of the 5 niche limit.) I would HAPPILY moderate these niches. And on the financial side for Narrative as a...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Malkazoid ·
PS If the @Narrative Network Team already intend to address this, and make unowned niches available for posting - it would be great if someone from the Team can stop in to post three words about it, so we all stop wasting time arguing for this and use that time more productively.
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Emily Barnett ·
Not only so that we can stop discussing it (so far nobody from the community has said they even have a problem with an unpurchased niche being active) But addressing this, will allow people to start writing content for the niche they want to post on, but currently cannot
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Malkazoid ·
Interesting. You may be right - maybe this is where it is coming from. This would completely destroy the notion of long tail content economy (see this post ). Less popular niches generate less activity than popular ones, but are also a lot more numerous... From an economic perspective, discriminating against them makes no sense - let alone from a human, freedom of expression and cultural value perspective. Narrative isn't meant to discriminate against less popular subject matter. I had...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Malkazoid ·
Thanks for finding this @Ivan Rygaev . I wonder what the rationale is behind removing moderators and going into read only... That seems disruptive. It made sense to me that a niche without moderators would be a problem, and would need to be locked, particularly if we have not implemented a pool of general moderators who can cover for niches without dedicated moderators (if this ever gets implemented, it certainly won't be there at launch time). But I can't see the reasoning behind taking a...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Malkazoid ·
Good point, but people become attached - we're human. And the more obscure the subject matter, the more human nature tells us the contributors will be geeks on the subject matter, and hypersensitive to being forced into a box that does not fit their topic as well as the perfect one they had chosen as a home. Some will leave. Not all, but some. Especially if they don't understand the necessity of shutting down their preferred niche. Hence the need for the Team to have a compelling and...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Ivan Rygaev ·
I think whatever the reason is it is the same why we have niche owners in the first place, i. e. why we have to buy niches. The platform could go completely without niche owners, right? Once a new niche is approved and gets moderators assigned it could be made available for posting. I don't know the actual reasons but I guess it is related to some kind of 'proof of popularity'. The buyer either believes that the niche topic is popular and will generate revenue or they are planning to make it...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Ivan Rygaev ·
I found the following in the spec. It looks like a decision to go with locked/read-only niches. Not sure though if the spec was created after this post or before. Orphaned Niches An owner may abandon the niche at any time, for any reason, via the Niche Settings area of the Niche (accessible by owner only). If abandoned, the existing moderators will stay in place and the niche will go back up on the auction block. The new owner will inherit the existing moderators. If a niche remains without...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Slaz ·
True that. At some point I'd like to post content to unpurchased niches too. The amount of existing content tagged to a niche gives an indication of how much it's worth for potential buyers. And although it's been said before, to me the best solution would be for the % of revenue that would normally go to the owner, to stay into the rewards pool. Or something along those lines. If enough interest gathers for an unpurchased niche, this should financially sustain itself in the long term.
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Ivan Rygaev ·
Deactivating a niche does not mean that all new potential content for it now does not have a place to be posted in. It won't be lost, it will be posted to other niches, probably with more followers, which is beneficial for the content and for the community in general. For example, if Carcassonne niche becomes read-only I still can post to Board Games niche and even attract new people to play Carcassonne. This increases the visibility of the content. That's how I see it.
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Emily Barnett ·
I agree. It doesn't make sense to me either.
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Ivan Rygaev ·
You will always have people leaving, disliking one or another feature of the platform. They already started appearing: https://alpha.narrative.org/m/feltbuzz (interestingly, you cannot find this account through search) Any change you make - you will lose some users. But if someone really wants to post into a specific niche which became read-only, they have an option to purchase-and-post. But I agree, a voice from the Team would be more than welcome.
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Emily Barnett ·
Not true. Many of us are at our 5 -niche cap. If I thought it was as simply as plopping 75 USD down to free up content choices, I would. But given that i own 5 niches, i no longer have the option you are referring too. To address another point you made @Ivan Rygaev where you referenced Carcassonnes and Board games, not all niche subsets have over arching niche topics yet. Also you may be able to post to a larger niche, such as you want to post to underwater photography, but it isn't active.
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Ted ·
A primary purpose of niche ownership is to substantiate that a niche has value. If the niche has no owner, then it likely has very little overall value (not worth the equivalent of $6.25 per month). As I stated in the original white paper for Narrative, we are trying to build a content economy (without a middleman). There are a couple of ways to interpret that. 1. We want to incentivize people to add value to the network by rewarding them, based on their roles and impact. This should be...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Emily Barnett ·
Well @Ivan Rygaev disregard my "Not true" statement. @ted just announced this morning that the niche cap has been moved from 5-10. so we can purchase more niches. This will help things out.
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

David Dreezer ·
Change "has been" to "will very soon be."
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Ivan Rygaev ·
@Emily Barnett Nevertheless, thank you for pointing this out to me. I forgot about the niche cap. Regarding you example with underwater photography, I think it will work the other way around. It will be more beneficial to post to Photography than to Underwater Photography. Yes, you post probably won't get to Top 10, but you likely will get more rewards just because more people will see your post. Imagine someone posting to Kansas City Street Photography. Your photo can be a perfect fit, but...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Malkazoid ·
@Ted - thanks for the clear explanation: very helpful. It is as I feared: you have lost sight of the long tail... but it is very positive that we've been able to ascertain that clearly today. Thanks for that. I have my doubts that just because a niche does not bring in 6.25 USD per month, it should be deemed an economic dud. Here's why. (If this seems familiar, it may be because we've been over this before on the forums in several forms). There is no significant extra overhead for the...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Emily Barnett ·
@Ivan Rygaev Not necessarily. You could post your underwater image on Photography and in theory get zero votes. Therefore you earn nothing from the big pool of photography where thousands of people are members scrapping it out each day, to be noticed. And Underwater photography could have only 30 devoted members of say scuba divers, and you may be the only content maker on the niche. Because those 30 members all got a notification of new content that day, excited they went and voted for you.
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Christina Gleason ·
I didn't join Narrative as an investor like @Malkazoid did; I joined as a content creator looking for a viable (paying!) alternative to posting my content for free on platforms like Facebook and reddit. Most of the people I've invited are here for the same reason. As a content creator, what @Ted describes is a NIGHTMARE. It's so backward to basically tell those of us who create content that it's up to US to find the investors to purchase the niches for which we have content READY AND WAITING...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Emily Barnett ·
Ditto.
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Emily Barnett ·
SNAP!!
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Malkazoid ·
Another angle that may speak more directly to you @Ted . Look at every single one of your predecessors in the social networking field. They succeeded because they built a bustling network BEFORE they even knew how to monetize it. They put 110% of their efforts towards getting people to love their platform. Profits came later. I'm not accusing you of chasing profits - that isn't the primary nature of Narrative's efforts, but you certainly are thinking of the economy to the detriment of the...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Heidi Hecht ·
My idea here is that, if a niche is "orphaned", any revenue that an owner would normally get could go into the Narrative operational pool and Narrative could also have a floating pool of moderators where somebody with a minimum level of reputation could volunteer to moderate an orphaned niche until somebody steps up to claim and/or moderate that niche. But keep that sucker open if it already has content!
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Heidi Hecht ·
That would work too. The real issue here would be what algorithm could be used to distribute rewards from orphaned niches. Because everybody's going to have a different idea of how this should be done.
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Ted ·
Just to clarify (and this may just be semantics)... saying that the funds that would normally go to the niche owner would go back into the Rewards Pool is pretty much the same as not paying any rewards to the niche (in other words, because there is no owner, there would be no ownership rewards to pay for that niche... and I would think that those un-earned (abandoned owner) rewards would be allocated to the other active owners). In addition, I would think that the abandoned niche moderators...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Christina Gleason ·
Tagging @Ted on this to get his take!
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Malkazoid ·
Hi @Christina Gleason - could you walk me through what the benefit would be of the network being named the owner of unowned niches? What would it do, effectively, apart from just allowing us to not call them unowned? Not sure I see the benefits, but I might be missing something big? I think we need to look at unowned niches as an asset, rather than a liability. They are invitations to become stakeholders in the network. The problem isn't the invitations, it is the barriers to accepting those...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Malkazoid ·
That's what I had assumed too.
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Christina Gleason ·
It would really just be a stop-gap measure that would allow us to post content in unowned niches. The Narrative team has said that niches MUST have owners to function properly, so if the choices are "no one can publish content in the thousands of unowned niches" or "let's make Narrative the 'owner' so that people can publish content in any approved niche," I know which I'd prefer. The whole point is moot if they can easily change the code the allow unowned niches to function with only...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Malkazoid ·
@Banter - good to see you weighing in on this. I'm struggling to see how what you propose above takes into account the expectations of most users. It actually seems extremely far-fetched to me. You're saying that someone who has written one or two articles about a topic should invest $75 in order to be able to make some money from their writing? Do you sincerely believe anyone who is only interested in content creation would consider that reasonable? Not everyone is a content entrepreneur,...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Banter ·
Here is my take on the situation. I used to think, 'Hey just let people post to Niches even if they don't have an owner.' I've since come to think about things a little differently. Narrative's goal is to drive people to post to Niches. If the user can't find a Niche (with an owner) to post to, then they can publish it on their personal Narrative Journal. The economic incentive is clear, people don't make rewards off of their personal journals, this is why they are encouraged to submit to up...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Banter ·
Hey @Malkazoid , thanks for the response. I guess it comes down to this: Allowing the posting of content to ownerless Niche's diminishes ownership in general, since you have content that is potentially not contributing rewards to any owner. Maybe that's OK? My other concern is seeing the Niche's / content categorization become too cluttered if ownership isn't a requirement. If they create a general mod pool to manage these 'unowned' niche's perhaps the quality could be managed. As you stated...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Malkazoid ·
Thanks @Christina Gleason - I understand much better where you are coming from with that now. I don't know for certain, but I assumed the objection from @Ted is conceptual, not mechanical. Essentially, the code could assign a placeholder name to the niche owner that is "Unowned", or "Released"... no need for it to be "Narrative Network"... Although it also could be Narrative Network... But I think from a mechanical viewpoint, all of those solutions are pretty much equivalent?
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Ivan Rygaev ·
I'm under impression that the pro small niche agitators do not understand how a blogging platform works. Of course, it could be the other way around and it is me who does not understand something important, but I have several years of experience participating in the "Russian reddit" site d3.ru. They have the concept of subsites (like subreddits) which are very similar to niches but do not require any approval or purchase. You just select a unique name, hit "Create" and immediately you become...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Malkazoid ·
Hello Ivan. I think everyone realises it won't prevent people from posting to the platform. But it will have a potently dangerous effect: when there is a niche that is much more specific to your content, and you discover that you can't post to it because of mysterious economic reasons that are not communicated or articulated anywhere, that's a terrible first impression. There are two types of disappointed customers. The kind who quietly walk away thinking this is not for me. And the kind...
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Re: The Abandoned Niche Scenario

Christina Gleason ·
To all of the new replies in this thread... I am a content creator first. I do not have an investment budget. The niche I own and the one I just won and have to pay for are BIG RISKS for me. They are not small potatoes. I bought Actually Autistic because it's personally the most important one to me. The one I just won is an investment - Ask Narrative - because I know how popular /r/AskReddit is, and I even have a marketing idea for launch to get people to use it from day one. But I'm a...
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