Tagged With "Appeals"

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Re: Niche Appeals Process

Bryan ·
After looking at the review page again, I had an "a-ha" moment. @carlos proposed that Niche, but it was rejected by the community ( erroneously I might add ). This information sheds new light on how I've been interpreting his participation in the Niche approval voting. It's hard being the guinea pigs of the untried and untested Niche Ballot system. There are obvious hiccups in the system, and those will likely be resolved as this grows... or it will just grow into a larger problem.
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Re: Niche Appeals Process

Bryan ·
Thanks for posting this as a discussion topic also. I saw the appeal, and wanted to comment on it too, but couldn't figure out how to do that: I saw the Vote Tally was "0" and clicked on the tab. But, it looked like all members of the Tribunal had voted "No" on the appeal. Language and Layout is funny that way: I think that column of Tribunal members could either just say " Tribunal Members " or " Undecided " or " Out To Lunch " or something
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Niche Appeals Process

ClosetCrypto ·
I have submitted an appeal to the tribunal to reconsider Oil or Life as an acceptable Niche. It meets the requirements and I believe this will be a good way to test the appeals process in general.
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Re: Niche Appeals Process

Ted ·
We'll be making some tweaks to the wording for the Appeals process over the next week or so to hopefully make things a little clearer. There are definitely some wonky bits in the way things are phrased in spots.
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Re: Niche Appeals Process

Bryan ·
Found the link to add an argument to an appealed Niche. It is subtle and needs to be positioned better. IMO
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Re: Niche Appeals Process

ClosetCrypto ·
Detective B-rye strikes again lol Can't help but think of family guy. Great notes good sir. Exactly why I thought it would be worth submitting an appeal.
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Narrative support niche vs Narrative 411 niche

Malkazoid ·
Hello... So the fine tuning saga of niche creation and appeals continues. JR brought this to my attention - the same user that proposed the Video Games niche, despite there already being a Gaming niche, has proposed a Narrative 411 niche, despite there being a Narrative Support niche already. In both cases, the questionable new niches were approved by the community. Both new niches now have appeals against them. For the Gaming vs Video Games, the case is pretty clear cut. Almost nobody...
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Re: Narrative support niche vs Narrative 411 niche

Brian Lenz ·
In my opinion, the two niches are completely different. One is "Narrator Support", which is clearly about support for anyone using the Narrative platform (Narrators). This can include readers, content creators, niche owners, moderators, etc. "Narrative Niche 411" is focused purely on niches. As such, I think it clearly qualifies as a sub-niche that can stand on its own.
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Re: Narrative support niche vs Narrative 411 niche

JR ·
Brian, I understand your reasoning, but then I have to ask, what occurs if the sub-niche starts providing support outside of merely Niche support? Do I then have a claim to the tribunal? And does this mean that the Narrator Support Niche can also be used for Niche Ownership support?
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Re: Narrative support niche vs Narrative 411 niche

Brian Lenz ·
Hi @JR , that could technically be a concern for any niche. There would be nothing to stop someone from cross-posting a piece of content to both niches, as well. Keep in mind that content creators choose the niches, not the niche owners or moderators. Content creators will likely centralize and focus their content on the more popular niches over time, so this is where good niche promotion comes in. If your niche is successful, it will stand tall as the obvious place to post Narrative support...
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Re: Narrative support niche vs Narrative 411 niche

Malkazoid ·
Hehe - I must be tired: I completely overlooked the word 'niche' in the title. I agree, that does make it a sub niche.
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Re: Narrative support niche vs Narrative 411 niche

Malkazoid ·
JR, my guess is that the broader niche wins out in this sort of scenario, in most cases. Because a post about with a niche tip is very likely to post to both the niche 411 niche, and your Narrative Support niche? Especially, as Brian mentioned, if you do your promotion well and everyone gets into the reflex of posting all Narrative information to Narrative Support.
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Re: Narrative support niche vs Narrative 411 niche

Malkazoid ·
@Brian Lenz Is it possible to withdraw a niche appeal? I know see that there is no conflict between these two niches.
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Re: Narrative support niche vs Narrative 411 niche

Brian Lenz ·
@Malkazoid , there's not a way to withdraw an appeal, but no worries. It'll just get approved by the Tribunal again.
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Re: Narrative support niche vs Narrative 411 niche

Malkazoid ·
Ok thanks! I'll pay closer attention when I'm getting more sleep. Can't promise when that will be
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Re: Narrative support niche vs Narrative 411 niche

Dr. Rick ·
I guess niche appeal withdrawals needs adding your "Features to be added to Narrative" topic as seems a sensible thing to add
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Re: Narrative support niche vs Narrative 411 niche

Emily Barnett ·
I know that this is kind of resolved but maybe it would be advantageous for the second one to just be called Niche 411. I think both these niches will make for very busy moderators and as we grow, one may just not be enough. I think this sub-niche is very important to the community.
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Re: Narrative support niche vs Narrative 411 niche

Emad ·
Re: Narrative support niche vs Narrative 411 niche
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Rebuttal to appealed Niche

mrgoodsett ·
Is there any way to submit a rebuttal to a Niche idea which has been appealed by another Narrative member? The Niche is under review by the Tribunal currently.
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Re: Rebuttal to appealed Niche

Brian Lenz ·
Hi @mrgoodsett , There currently isn't any way to submit a rebuttal to an appeal, but you're free to share any thoughts you have here on the community. You can be assured the Tribunal will do its best to consider all angles in terms of niche validity regardless. Thanks, Brian
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Re: Rebuttal to appealed Niche

mrgoodsett ·
Thanks again @Brian Lenz , useful info as always.
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Re: Rebuttal to appealed Niche

Brian Lenz ·
You're welcome!
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How to appeal an approved niche that probably shouldn't have been approved?

Malkazoid ·
Hello! I think I've been able to do this in the past, but I cannot see any way to do that right now. If it is possible, can someone point me in the right direction? And if it isn't possible, why not? Thanks!
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Re: How to appeal an approved niche that probably shouldn't have been approved?

Rosemary ·
Yes, you can still do that. Go to the Niche details page (where you can see the list of actions, like when the auction ended, when the moderator elections started, etc.). Click the three dots in the top right corner. You'll see "appeal to Tribunal."
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Niche Appeals

MOLLY O ·
I know there is ongoing discussion on the quality of Niches. Good discussion that we are reading and digesting…and we have continued to make some tweaks to how things work along the way. That is the point of having the Alpha. The passion on wanting to make this a good quality platform is great - and hopefully will translate to a really large community soon! As I have posted prior, those members who have been with us awhile in the Alpha - have certainly experienced the difference in quality...
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Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
@Ted I am addressing your tribunal comment here, because I cannot on the platform. This niche is a "made up" photography term, it isn't a thing. That is why i am saying it is inaccurate. The very nature of what street photography is, contradicts this description. Your comment seems to be talking about redundancy. Which is not my grounds for appeal. Wiki "Portrait photography or portraiture in photography is a photograph of a person or group of people that captures the...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
Some visual clarification. Street photography from a book on the history of street photography. Se how they are not posing for the camera. it is candid. even the guy who sees the camera is caught of guard and not posing for a photo. A Portrait taken outdoors. The subject is aware that his photo is being taken, and has readied herself for the moment. Just because this person doesn't have the correct vernacular doesn't mean that narrative doesn't have to either. We can reject the inaccurate...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
I disagree with your scenario. A portrait is collaboration between subject and photographer, based on mutual acknowledgement of the camera. Even when this happens with no verbal dialog takes place. Candid doesn't mean a natural pose, it means without knowledge. So in your scenario of the italian woman in the market, it is a candid photograph. It would become a portrait if you asked her permission, and she became aware of the exchange between you. Only the moment of surprise when a subject...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Malkazoid ·
https://www.creative-photograp...com/candid-portrait/ https://fstoppers.com/portrait...ait-photography-2996 https://digital-photography-sc...f-somebody-you-know/
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
It is hard for me to agree with that, because it splits a hair in a way that is not genuine. For example, when i owned my art gallery, I would go to my represented artists studio to take photos when they are working. Yes it is a portrait. Yes they are working, rather than sitting in stereotypical pose like sitting in a chair holding paint brushes, and touching their chin like they are deep in thought. But these more natural looking photos are not candid, the artist (subject) knows what i am...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Malkazoid ·
Pending a response from the Narrative team, here is my sense of the best way forwards. We should keep the policy of older niches having priority over newer ones, when considering redundancy, EXCEPT when the newer niche has been purchased, and the older one remains unpurchased. In this situation, this would allow @Emily Barnett 's partner to buy the more recent, better named and more clearly described Street Photography niche, and then immediately lodge an appeal for the older, less well...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
Exactly.
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Malkazoid ·
So chatting with Emily, I've come to understand the problem as follows. Street Photography is a duplicate of the older Street-Style Portrait Photography. In essence, there is no real uniqueness that properly demarcates the two. BUT the older niche has an unclear description, and trying to change that description once you buy it may well be rejected because once clearly described, it will be far more apparent that it is essentially the same as the newer, better described Street Photography...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Malkazoid ·
Thanks @Emily Barnett - that last message helps me understand where you are coming from. I respect your perception of this situation. I do however think that people won't be confused by the niche. Could the description be better - certainly... but I think it still gives a good sense of what kind of photos are intended to live there. The main issue seems to be with your binary approach to candid vs portrait, with a moment where one becomes the other, and without room for shades of grey...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
This Niche isn't called Candid Portraiture, it isn't called Candid Photography and it isn't called Street Photography. It is unclear what the direction is for the niche. It is unpurchased, after almost six months with other people, clearly looking for street photography as an active niche option, given the three other niches in street photography suggested. Well I guess we just see what happens, so far nobody has purchased it, and i think it is the description, not the desire for the niche...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Malkazoid ·
Hi Emily, can we agree that there is such a thing as a candid portrait? That seems to be the crux of this matter. Ah, ok just saw you don't agree with the term Candid Portraiture. So it sounds like it is not a clear cut situation that all photographers agree upon.
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Malkazoid ·
Hi @Emily Barnett Thanks for this in depth foray. My knowledge of photography is informal so I had to read up on some of the definitions to supplement the understanding I have carried with me through the years. The question I have, regarding your approach is this: since one of the categories of portraiture is 'candid portraiture', why can't some street photography be street portrait photography? The candid approach to a portrait favours spontaneity and can indeed take place without the...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Malkazoid ·
So the description of the niche you are downvoting is: I did look at it: I promise! I wouldn't have jumped in with such an involved response without looking at the niche under discussion! I don't see anything in this description that is incompatible with the opinion that candid street portraits are a thing. I only see a problem with this description if I subscribe to your approach, which says that a street portrait cannot be a candid one. I don't see a reason to subscribe to your approach,...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Malkazoid ·
Fantastic @MOLLY O . I can see you were able to absorb the essential takeaways from our ramblings - I'm thankful you did. It took quite a bit of @Emily Barnett and I getting lost in the details of the faulty description of this niche, before we were able to step back and focus on the systemic problem that is the real consideration. Sometimes the trees really do hide the forest.
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

MOLLY O ·
@Emily Barnett and @Malkazoid . Thanks for all this discussion on the topic. We are discussing this internally to see if we need to tweak the model around if there are two duplicates and one is Active (purchased) - who should the winner be? We are looking at all the other possible scenarios (e.g., bids occurring at same time but payment first??) before we get back to you on this so that we can address it all at the same time.
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

MOLLY O ·
@Malkazoid . I was getting a bit lost trying to understand the issue at the beginning (while learning more about photography) so I really appreciated how you distilled out the bigger issue.
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
@MOLLY O @Ted given the rules of Narrative, my only recourse was to try and get rid of the unclear niche, so that the platform can move forward on getting a niche that actually describes this lesser understood, yet very popular form of photography. I doubt that there will be buyers for either niche with the way it exists right now, under the current rules. This is part of the problem, that we have been trying to talk about in previous threads about the growing amount of parked niche...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
Agreed it is fascinating, and cannot be easy to implement. As community, I think we see the issues coming before we have an actual example because using it is what we are focused on, where you guys are using it, building it, and promoting it simultaneously. I am just glad that such an example now demonstrates the issue that we were alluding to before, and some solution can be resolved in alpha.
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

MOLLY O ·
@Emily Barnett . This is what the Alpha is for Self governance is a brand new thing we are tackling…such an interesting social experiment. Keep in mind that as we discuss this issue, we are also thinking about how rules can be automated in the future so Tribunal doesn't have to go back and research the voting history and other things.
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Christina Gleason ·
I don't think it's even necessary to remove reputation accrued from the suggestion, as there are some well thought-out niches that have remained unpurchased since I joined in the autumn, but they just aren't that popular for people who know they're limited to owning 5 niches. But purging un-purchased niches after 6 months would make it easier to rid the system of the truly awful ones that got approved anyways, and it provides an opportunity for other unpurchased niches to "hit the front...
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
Any resolve on this yet? these niches are still stuck canceling each other out.
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

MOLLY O ·
Hopefully soon.
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Re: Street Style Portrait Photography

Emily Barnett ·
Ok Thanks @MOLLY O
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Re: Allow Content Creator To Appeal Content Rejected From Niche

Emily Barnett ·
I worry about this. I think the tribunal is going to have a very large work load as it grows, for only 3%. It is the lease efficient use of time for return. Personally I think there are enough stop gaps in place. The community can vote out a bad moderator, the content maker could message the owner if abuses are taking place by the moderator, and I also think most moderator's, especially on a profitable niche are going to be motivated to keep their job, ergo do their job in accordance of the...
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