Tagged With "description"

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Niche validation voting, and reputation

Malkazoid ·
Hello @Narrative Network Team Voting for the niches is becoming quite time consuming especially if we want to leave informative comments for any downvotes, or a controversial upvote. And yet the community must do this in order for the platform to work. 1) This may already be the case, but in case it isn't, I propose that the voting activity from the outset of the Chaucer Alpha be taken into account in the initial reputation scoring when the platform launches. This way the people putting...
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Texas niche, description

Malkazoid ·
Hello all, I found myself having to downvote the Texas niche, even though I really wanted to upvote it. It makes specific mention of crypto discussions in its description, and I see this as very detrimental to Narrative because it leaves users with the distinct impression that the platform is crypto focused. A niche about a state or a country should be about that state or country and everything pertaining to it. A specific mention of crypto means Narrative aims to discuss everything in...
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Top of the News niche

Malkazoid ·
Hello, I don't mean to pick on this niche - I think there is a viable niche there. The problem is with the current description: Share opinions and views on the top stories in the news and current affairs. Are we to understand that the niche mods will take it upon themselves to curate a Top 10, Top 20, or Top 50 of what they consider to be the biggest stories? If so, then I would have voted Yes. But currently, the description leaves it open to interpretation and does not specify that there...
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Duplicate niche alert - Marijuana

Malkazoid ·
There is currently a Marijuana niche being voted on, and it has 70% approval, despite being redundant. A cannabis niche already exists. Please go and vote down so we don't end up with a tribunal appeal. https://alpha.narrative.org/ballot/10464048070966420 As an aside, to @christian - who I believe is the owner of the Cannabis niche - it might be useful to add a number of other aliases for Cannabis in your description. It is good that you already have Marijuana in there, but...
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Shopping vs online shopping - a Tribunal appeal question

Malkazoid ·
Hello, @MOLLY O recently posted an excellent blog post regarding how to suggest viable niches. A quote from this article: I recently submitted an appeal to the Tribunal regarding this niche: https://alpha.narrative.org/niche/shopping The description of the niche is clearly mismatched: "all article related to shopping online" The problem exhibited by the description mismatch for the Shopping niche is exactly the type of problem warned against in Molly's article, and yet...
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Niche descriptions where the suggester talks about him/herself

M ·
Hello! @MOLLY O - there is a niche you have voted to approve, that references the suggester in the description: https://alpha.narrative.org/hq/approval/26509572804797087 Up until now, we have quite consistently voted down such niches - and I think it is optimal to do so. Users, especially new users, could easily become confused about what the niche is for: is it a public space where everyone can submit, or is it some sort of private space dedicated the niche owner has...
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Is it CURRENTLY possible to edit the name/description of a niche you submitted?

Christina Gleason ·
I'm asking because of the Drinking Alcohol niche I suggested here: https://alpha.narrative.org/hq/approval/25946601693388838 I added a line about the legal drinking age specifically to avoid the "encouraging illegal activity" part of the TOS, but others find it problematic, which is pretty much the opposite of why I included it in the first place. (I am autistic and thought I was preventing a problem, not causing one!) I know there's been talk in here about being able to edit suggested niche...
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An interesting case of niche overlap

Malkazoid ·
Suggested in fairly quick succession, these two niches seem to have just the right (or wrong) amount of overlap to make an interesting case study in how different two niches need to be in order to be considered unique enough for Narrative to benefit from having both. Algorithmic Art (submitted first) https://alpha.narrative.org/hq...al/22568778465722584 and Generative art https://alpha.narrative.org/hq...al/25524374813357414 They are different: generative art is more inclusive and includes...
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How do you standardize clarity?

Emily Barnett ·
I have been an active Narrative member since before Alpha launched. One of the most fascinating things about being one of the early adopters is getting to watch how the platform continuously change, as new crops of people affect the development of it. It is truly exciting! As of late though, I am noticing a voting tendency, that I would like to call attention too, because in my opinion could become quite problematic. I am noticing Niche down-voting tendencies because the description "could...
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Re: Shopping vs online shopping - a Tribunal appeal question

Brian Lenz ·
Hi @Malkazoid , I can see where you're coming from here. I think this is a matter of standards vs. best practices. The Tribunal (and community!) really should only be rejecting niches based on the criteria set by the system: unique, no profanity, no misspellings, English, and complies with the TOS. I don't see imperfection (or lack of perfect consistency) as a standard that must be upheld. There is gray area and margin for error. Some niche descriptions are sub-optimal and may not follow...
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Re: Shopping vs online shopping - a Tribunal appeal question

Malkazoid ·
Thanks Brian - that does help me understand your process. You did leave out one of the rejection criteria that is available to voters: "The niche name/description is unclear/incorrect." This is grounds for rejection, and it describes the current issue very well. I'd like to make a recommendation. I agree whole-heartedly that rejecting the niche is not optimal. But I feel equally strongly that leaving it in its current state is undesirable. More so than rejecting the niche. After all, if...
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Re: Shopping vs online shopping - a Tribunal appeal question

Bryan ·
Not abiding by standards should be grounds for rejection for this reason... people with poorly written and/or unclear Niche descriptions MAY argue later that another Niche is violating their airspace. Hey, no fair. That's what I MEANT to say... It's a problem. Especially when the voting public is full of un-educated, or non-credentialed, voters (no offense intended).
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Re: Shopping vs online shopping - a Tribunal appeal question

Malkazoid ·
Exactly - and there is something inherently wrong with a niche going through a Tribunal appeal, diverting their attention from other things... and yet STILL coming out the other side flawed in such a blatant way. I really think the Tribunal needs to make these tweaks while they are at it. It is bad for Narrative for sloppy niches to remain, and it is a very bad look for the project to observe the sloppiness and do nothing about it.
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Re: Shopping vs online shopping - a Tribunal appeal question

Gord ·
Sounds like a good platform to campaign on for the next Tribunal election
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Re: Niche descriptions where the suggester talks about him/herself

MOLLY O ·
You have a good point….I didn't really read this as this was the suggesters Niche — unlike others that have been more blatant. But, I can read it that way now. I do really like the Niche topic and how it is described (absent the first part of the first sentence). Thanks for flagging it for me.
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Re: Niche descriptions where the suggester talks about him/herself

M ·
So do I! It is a fantastic niche. I've updated my comment to specifically encourage the suggester to suggest again! The suggester actually beat me to it: I was going to suggest a copyright niche. But come to think of it, copyright is more specific than intellectual property so I will probably still suggest it.
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Re: Niche descriptions where the suggester talks about him/herself

Christina Gleason ·
Thank you. All these self-referential descriptions have been driving me bonkers.
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Re: Is it CURRENTLY possible to edit the name/description of a niche you submitted?

Malkazoid ·
Hi Christina, I wondered the same thing recently - and it does not seem that functionality has been added yet. A few days ago I tried to revive a thread where this was the topic: https://community.narrative.or...d-niches-are-handled But I wouldn't expect much in response until we're well clear of the New Year period. This functionality would be really helpful. Meanwhile, don't get discouraged! Your niche suggestions are great!
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Re: Is it CURRENTLY possible to edit the name/description of a niche you submitted?

Ted ·
To confirm what @Malkazoid said, that feature is not yet supported, unfortunately.
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Drixx Madison ·
You raise excellent points and concerns. I fully agree with you about standards because it's easy to default to a journalistic or academic research standard of what excellent writing is, even though most people don't communicate that way. I also find myself up-voting topics I use to deem repetitive because the content posted and vibes of each niches may feel completely different. What if only 1 TV station was allowed to report thunder storms. Haha What if the 2nd duplicate niche owner is...
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Malkazoid ·
I loved this rant Emily! And I agree with most of it. I've been around since before the Alpha too, and I agree the patterns in participation and voting since the early days have been fascinating! I'm loving, in particular, that the latest wave of niche writing has been really good (and I attribute that in part to the strictness of our voting: when standards are too lax, people just don't try as hard). Subjectivity: yes, it is inevitable, and perfectly acceptable to have our own standards for...
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

David Dreezer ·
@Emily Barnett This post got everything off of my chest that has been growing there. This is why I used the description I did about Molly's post. It is mean to help people that want to learn to write more attractive Niches. It is not the 10 Commandments of Niches. You get it. Thank you! Your thoughts over Biscuits are exactly where I am with the failed Tool Niche. I'm heartbroken for the guy that suggested it. Look, spelling does count. Descriptions do count. If I'm writing Red Sox content...
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Malkazoid ·
I have empathy for anyone who sees a niche they suggested being rejected, but my heart doesn't break for them. In the scheme of things, it just isn't a big deal. We improve by failing, and by learning not to fail in the same way the next time. In a funny way, the way the Tool niche failed is the same way the Narrative team are failing over this very issue, so there is a strange kind of logic in your empathy for the suggester. The team is currently assuming it has communicated how the...
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

David Dreezer ·
The Tribunal's job isn't to fix problems or edit typos. They Tribunal's job is to review those changes. And they do. They adjudicate. That's what they do. People submit Niches with typo fixes almost every day. It's the Community's job to do QA, not the Tribunal. And not the company. And the Community is doing that. HOW that QA is done, is the discussion here, right?
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Malkazoid ·
Narrative Company has decided the Tribunal should not fix errors, but that doesn’t mean we can’t question the efficiency of that decision. Until someone clarifies a way to be certain the problems get fixed, if the Tribunal is going to adjudicate in such a way that the problems persist (approving niches with problems) then we haven’t solved anything. If the solution is for niches to bounce back and forth between the community, suggester and Tribunal multiple times - shouldn’t it be for more...
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

David Dreezer ·
But that's entirely incorrect. If the Tribunal were to approve a Niche with a typo AND the owner doesn't correct it then it might gain little or no content, fail, and ultimately dies due to poor reputation. You don't look at it, I don't look at it, and and it then goes away. It's incumbent upon the Niche owner to get it right. If they fix the issue then it has a better chance of success, if they don't then the Community ignores it and it fails. The Community will have spoken by the Niche's...
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Malkazoid ·
It is not incorrect. Lets walk through it. As I've previously mentioned, a niche holds a space that cannot be duplicated (uniqueness). So a niche we approve, but that fails to gain traction because of its name or category doesn't just die due to poor reputation: it prevents what could be a successful niche from existing. Can we agree that that is worth being concerned about? Second, following your hypothetical that a niche gains traction WITH a typo - you ask who cares. You should care. A...
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Emily Barnett ·
Glad you like my rant @Malkazoid after an intense season of work, it feels good to be back in the Narrativerse!! Ha..I hope I was missed a little. Boy this is a good topic because I really can get behind both @David Dreezer and some of your points too Malkazoid. I think what that says is that the answers are very close and we just need as staff and community to try and stay away from the fringes. Basically I agree with everything David said with one exception. As it stands the idea that the...
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Christina Gleason ·
Apparently I'm late to this discussion. I think it's fairly obvious that I agree most with Malkazoid's perspective, though my voting is probably viewed as "harsher." I am autistic, so I do have my own standards based on my interpretation of the rules and suggestions we've been given about new niches because that is how things make sense to me. If I'm the only person who votes to reject a niche, I'm okay with that, because I have generally commented with my reasoning, which I hope will be...
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Malkazoid ·
Emily, it is great to have you back! Regarding your opinion that I am being cavalier, I respect your opinion, but I think you are wrong. As I've said explicitly in this thread, I have empathy for anyone who has their niche suggestion rejected. Rejection of any kind is not most people's idea of fun. But we have to keep this in perspective. A healthy response to rejection is to try again. As my many comments on niche approval pages will attest, I tend to take the time to encourage people...
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Malkazoid ·
Here's another thought, although there seems to be a lot of resistance to the Tribunal doing anything beyond rejecting or approving. Why can't the Tribunal appeal become a two way street? When the community has gone to the trouble to point out a niche is not meeting a standard of clarity, and has often suggested fixes in the comments - why waste this? Why doesn't the Tribunal use those comments as a starting point to offer a revised niche description to the niche suggester, which the...
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Malkazoid ·
Oh, @Emily Barnett , just one more thing that disturbed me a little: I'm quite sure I never said the Tool niche was 'obtuse'. I used that word in a paragraph that had nothing to do with the Tool niche, and was talking about niche standards in general. I take it this was just a mistake you made, and not an attempt to make me look like I'm being a jerk to the Tool niche suggester? Because between this, and the 'cavalier' comment, I am wondering a little. I have not been anything else but...
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Christina Gleason ·
I have as well. THIS is what a good name and description look like!
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Malkazoid ·
Exactly - problem solved! In the end, I think this shows the way forwards. We should take rejection in our stride, even if it sucks - and just resubmit an improved niche. Everybody wins, because the network becomes a place where content is easier to find. Onwards!
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Emily Barnett ·
Narrative is really frustrating me. Like to the point where I feel that it is a chore currently. Not the format. But this exclusionary approach that has been happening since the rep has been added, when it comes to voting. Here is the thing that this thread was about when i started it. The rejection rule is: "Is the Niche name/description unclear or incorrect". It doesn't state "could it be clearer or better marketed" that would be a different reason for rejecting, which is not a currently...
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Emily Barnett ·
@Malkazoid , sorry for the 2 day delay getting back to your comments. I didn't mean to offend you. I definitely wasn't trying to make you look like a jerk. Now I am walking a fine line here, because it wasn't my intention to call anyone out with this thread, nor was the "Tool" case not actually even one that i was even referring to with this thread...it just kind of slipped that way. I actually don't find you to be one of the people who is voting things down consistently for not being clear...
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Malkazoid ·
@Emily Barnett - do you really, sincerely feel some people are gaming the system by downvoting insincerely, to prevent the people they are downvoting from gaining reputation? You mitigate your sentence somewhat by saying 'even if it is not the person's intention'. But if it isn't the person's intention, it can't be 'gaming the system'. Either people are sincerely voting what they feel is best for the platform, or they are gaming the system... it can't really be both. So if it is gaming the...
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Christina Gleason ·
Thank you for saying this, @Malkazoid . It's okay for people not to agree on everything. I know I'm a bit stricter in my voting, but now I don't feel too much of a burden about it because your vote is equal to mine, so if I'm "wrong" about something, you can effectively cancel my vote. A week ago, it would take at least two people to be able to do that, and it made me hesitate to cast votes at all on certain niches. I do intend to try to vote on EVERY niche, but if I'm leaning toward reject...
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Emily Barnett ·
@Malkazoid actually it is you and @Christina Gleason who are joining me, in asking to remove the seven day block, as it was my initial post that suggested it, with you both adding into the dialog...but whatever. https://community.narrative.or...ant-and-other-issues To answer your question, no I Don't really think people are gaming the system intentionally, but given that I have never met anyone on this platform in person, and there are many new people whom I haven't connected with continuous...
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Christina Gleason ·
Thank you. Wanna make a pact? When Beta goes live, we celebrate with cupcakes for breakfast! Or delicious muffins - which are definitely not cupcakes, but can be just as enjoyable when you get them with chocolate chips in them, or topped with brown sugar and cinnamon!
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Emily Barnett ·
I think that is a swell idea! Maybe we can get it trending...where we get everybody to take a celebratory breakfast photo with a cake, cupcake or muffins.
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Re: How do you standardize clarity?

Malkazoid ·
I was unfair in blindsiding you Emily, without mentioning that I was responding in great part to what you said on Telegram recently. I actually thought we had all agreed to disagree, tacitly. So when I saw you talking about exclusionary voting and how annoyed you were, I guess your annoyance bred annoyance in me. Funny how that works sometimes. And yes - you may well have originated the idea of removing the lock out period for niche suggesting - if so, I’d love for us to focus on that idea...
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Re: Texas niche, description

RobbyCannard ·
Great post @Malkazoid I completely agree, I have also been put off by some of the descriptions which is a real shame as most of the time I really like the niche. Maybe we need the facility to offer suggestions to improve the description. There may be occasions where people are able to articulate the description, as a community it would be fantastic if we were able to support each other
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Re: Niche validation voting, and reputation

Whitmal ·
HI Since they want good content maybe keeping it the way it is will drive people to take their time and post well written descriptions.
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Re: Niche validation voting, and reputation

Dr. Rick ·
I agree with a lot of what you are saying @Malkazoid , if I down vote a niche, I certainly want to give the creator a reason why which of course takes time. I also worry that when the volume of niche's increases I may simply miss a good niche and not give a vote to it. I think the idea of rewarding those taking the time to vote and thus putting the effort in is a good one. I also think having a scoring system also is good although I'm not sure of penalising those users that vote against the...
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Re: Niche validation voting, and reputation

Emily Barnett ·
Thank you for posting this @Malkazoid I intended to post a similar post, but wanted to wait until my niche selection was done. I think the time invested for voting must be counted towards ones community reputation. If you spend time pitching in to build all the houses in a community, you should get recognition for doing so. Following the same analogy...if you show up to build those houses and you don't know what you are doing, or worse yet have malicious intent, which results in making other...
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Re: Niche validation voting, and reputation

Dr. Rick ·
Another idea I had for speeding up the voting process when you wanted to leave a comment perhaps would be have a multiple choice of boiler plate reason why you up\down vote (duplicate, not inappropriate etc.) or more vote button rather than Yes/No, e.g. No Duplicate, No Inappropriate etc.
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Re: Niche validation voting, and reputation

Emily Barnett ·
Maybe just No --dupicate of "fill in the blank" No--offensive to the community
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Re: Niche validation voting, and reputation

Dr. Rick ·
Yes that works for me. Perhaps also ... No - other "fill in blank" too ?
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Re: Texas niche, description

Bryan ·
Agreed. I just voted YES for FISHING but had the same reservations about the description — and commented on the ballot. If it's just unique and non-TOS-violating ... then we lack the ability to provide any qualitative assessment.
 
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