Tagged With "Ownership"

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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Emily Barnett ·
@Malkazoid I have to get ready for an event so I cannot give your post the attention it deserves before i properly respond tomorrow. But i will say this. If someone wants to open a store and sell lets say neon green balls, they may not have a lot of walk in traffic. It is up to them to go out and find all the people who love to own neon green balls. the rent of the store for green ball guy should be the same as the rent for the store that sells shoes for instance, which has a lot more...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

ClosetCrypto ·
I’m on my mobile so excuse shortness and typos. i may be confused but I believe niche owners all share the entire 10% pool allotted to niche owners out of the 85% allocated to the community. For example, The 10% allocated to niche owners is worth $100,000. That $100,000 is divided between all niche owners each receiving a portion based on the popularity/reputation of their respective niche. So a niche owner is getting paid off of all niches where’s they are only paying 20% of what their...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
Enjoy your event! Don't give up on outright ownership. One of the team members has said it is being considered for the future, if I'm not mistaken. I think it may have been @Michael Farris . If something is crappy, we should not settle for it. Another Content Economy will crop up sooner than we think, and get this right, and then our investments in passion, time and money will all take a serious hit. True ownership is a FAR simpler and more effective solution to the problem you are trying to...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
I think that's right? First year, I think with the current plan, $75 minimum fee applies. Yes, 20% of the previous year's revenue is likely to be less than 20% of the current year's revenue. But growth in all years is not something to be counted on, especially once Narrative reaches whatever its market saturation point will be. My take is this fee is simply not the best solution for the network. A flat, nominal fee like $75 or $100 dollars, plus charging a commission when niches are sold at...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
The 20% was never mentioned on these forums until very recently, and I get the feeling it was not in the Whitepaper until fairly recently as well. I read the white paper perhaps five or six weeks ago, and that would have jumped out at me. But it is possible I missed it. I couldn't tell because I did not download the older white paper that I read. Anyway, the important point is that several times, a $75 dollar minimum was stipulated in conversation, WITHOUT stipulating the 20%. The 20% is far...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Ted ·
You should definitely feel free to debate the pros and cons of renewal fees for niches, but I can tell you pretty confidently that we have no intention of changing that model. I say that because it sounds like you under the (false) impression that it is something we are talking about changing. IMO the renewal fee requirement for niches is a very fundamental part of the model. It helps to ensure that every niche has at last some minimal amount of value. If a niche is not worth the equivalent...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Brian Lenz ·
Let me present a slightly different mental model for an identical fee structure. Perhaps this will help the hang-up people are having with the 20% niche renewal fee. At least one of the concerns has to do with receiving a niche renewal bill at the end of the year and not having the NRVE to pay it. This scenario is similar to under-withholding your income tax on your paychecks and having to pay the tax man at the end of the year. Poor planning and hard times are certainly scenarios that can...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Harj ·
Hi Mal I can say the the 20% may not have been mentioned on these forums until very recently, but I can say it was in the Whitepaper since as far as I can remember. Maybe you could see it as a lease holder agreement, does that help bro ? Ted in my eyes is very right when he says "the renewal fee requirement for niches is a very fundamental part of the model." Hope that helps the conversation
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Ted ·
I think a cap of might have merit, but then you really do have a fairness question... obviously caps are great for the whale niches, which will pay a lower percentage rate than smaller niches.
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Ted ·
It's ALWAYS been in the white paper. Doesn't mean we can't debate it of course. I enjoy seeing the different perspectives. We all want the best for Narrative. Just realize we aren't always going to agree. Hopefully no hard feelings when that happens.
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
Why a fairness problem? One pays at auction far more for the bigger niche than someone who buys a much smaller one. That's all the fairness a free market has ever needed: why would this be different? But the core issue is ownership... That's the part I'm interested in understanding: why you feel a leasing program is a better way to go despite the time-tested benefits of allowing real ownership.
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

ClosetCrypto ·
By that scenario, any business owner that pays taxes to the government doesn’t actually own their business then. But that’s not the case. It’s the cost of doing business. But unlike Narrative, the government doesn’t redistribute 85% of all revenues they collect directly back to the people.
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
Hi Brian, Good to hear your voice on this. What you say above is completely true - but nobody benefits when members don't plan ahead, or experience hardship. There is a learning curve to successfully operating anything, and niches are no different. Why encourage a situation where people who have been through that learning curve suddenly can get ousted (completely avoidably), and are replaced with someone who has to learn the ropes of successfully operating that niche (or discovering they...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
I think I was mostly under the impression that there was an openness to considering arguments on their merits, and that if a better solution is proposed by the community, that it would be considered for implementation. Was that impression false? That makes perfect sense. I never argued a renewal fee should not exist and I understand very well the purpose that it serves in your panoply of incentives for Narrative to function smoothly. I'm arguing that there are tangible benefits to shifting...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
You are conflating two things, the benefits of ownership, and taxes. Being taxed does not negate the benefits of true ownership in the real world. A business owner in the real world can accrue capital gains and can sell their business. That's what makes them a true owner. The fact that they pay taxes has no bearing on that. With Narrative, you can make no capital gains, no matter how much time and energy you put into building a niche over many years. And you cannot sell the niche. You are...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
Fair enough. Hey, thanks Harj, but I don't think you have been following the conversation closely enough. I am the one who has been saying since the beginning that it is a leaseholder agreement, not ownership. I have presented what I think are clear and strong arguments why ownership is feasible and far more beneficial to the network, than lease agreements. And finally, nobody is disagreeing with Ted, about renewal fees being a requirement for niches, and a fundamental part of the model.
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Harj ·
Hi Mal I understand your point but do you not think lets say "Bitcoin" is already going to be HOT property ? Not much work needed really especially with the fact that you wont have to compete with others calling there Niche ie Bitcoin1 or Bitcointherealone as Narrative have removed your competition not bad for 20% really tax. The guy who gets that one will not be complaining at all. I would gladly pay 60+% tax! your still going to make a killing and have to do nothing just get your mod in...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
Hi Harj, Thanks for the thought, but I prefer not to look at it that way. I think there will be plenty of work required, and the platform needs niche owners to work hard in order to be successful. Yes, popular niches will have an advantage, but why should people read about and discuss Bitcoin on Narrative rather than the thousands of other places they could (and already are)? The thing that will bring them here, is if niche owners work hard to attract the right content. Continually...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Gerbino ·
Hi @Emily Barnett . I think I get the sentiment of what you're trying to say, but if I dust off my economics textbook, and you consider the 20% renewal fee a tax on income, then it is regressive in effect....which is good for the successful niches. I mean, if you think about it this way, the unsuccessful niches will pay the highest percentage compared to all niches, so technically, the unsuccessful niches will subsidise the large niches (e.g. if your niche only had income of $75 the previous...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Emily Barnett ·
@Gerbino My suggestion is still one of percentages. I suggested it be based on the percentage of the increase of Narrative. That is fair across the board. if Narrative increases as a community by 20% or in advertising revenue for instance then a 20% increase of your initial bid for your niche seems fair, both in the niche popularity and in my mind the fee structure. If Narrative is generating more of an audience for my Niche then I feel it has earned a 20% increase. I don't see how it earns...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Michael Farris ·
I was ready to jump in at several points but then there would be another post to digest. First and foremost, thank you for considered writing with real points and arguments. Most UNsocial-media-like !! It bodes well for Narrative content. The biggest thank-you is for shifting the discussion on to a real content economy where real transactions have real-world effect. I am in despair in Telegram with the "when exchange" crowd who think that Narrative exists for them to cash in their NRVE for a...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Emily Barnett ·
Nice to hear your voice on this thread @Michael Farris and for the thoughtfulness in the response. I like to articulate my thoughts and try to proceed slower than my immediate tendancy (only took nearly 5 decades to hone this skill) so I will ruminate for bit. p.s. yep i get it about the telegram feed...sheesh...but there are some real core people here who get it and are invested in "making it happen". That is exciting.
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Emily Barnett ·
Also @Michael Farris I am totally adopting your term Content Entrepreneur. I am going to print that on my next set of business cards.
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
I agree with you Emily. I think a fixed renewal fee is perfectly fair because niches fetch more at auction the more popular they stand to be - no need for niche operators of popular niches to also pay more than other niche operators every single year. If there is any sort of sliding scale, I think it really should have a maximum cap. Likewise, I think the minimum might be better off being lower than $75 so as to not make it impossible for people of lesser means to jump in and potentially...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Soňa ·
Hi @Emily Barnett , I like your reasoning. I must agree with @Eduardo Hernández that your argumentation is really sharp 😊 Now I am referring to your comments from the previous page of this discussion.The comparison with mall is interesting and it helps to see the whole problem on a deeper level. You say that the niche renewal rate should increase in accordance with a growth of the whole platform. It seems as a fair proposition if you indeed aim to achieve the setting where the more (or...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
Narrative niches do not function as franchises. Franchises bring you your clientele. In Narrative, especially for us Founders and earliest members, we will be bringing our clientele to Narrative. Franchises bring you a proven business model, provide training - it is basically a turn-key business. In Narrative, it is quite the opposite: these niches have to be built from the ground up. But my concern isn't even centred on whether the comparison is accurate or not: I've got to be frank - I...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
The best way to avoid niches being wasted is true ownership. Owners put more energy into their property because the capital gains they can achieve will reward them for it if/when they decide to sell. Income + capital gains is better than income alone. It is as simple as that. They will also have an incentive to sell their niche if they start to lose interest in maintaining at peak performance, because they will achieve the best sale price while the niche is still at peak performance, not...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
Eduardo - I would have PM-ed you rather than posting here for this, but that functionality is currently disabled. Could you let me know which project you are unofficially advising? I would like to explore other possibilities at this point. I'll still be involved with Narrative for the time being, but it's time for me to diversify.
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Emily Barnett ·
@Michael Farris I am back to respond. First I will say this. I am Canadian so by nature I am more socialistic...I do like everyone to succeed. But I want to dissect to points you made and I will try to be brief. Quoting Michael Ferris: The Franchise does feel like an appropriate analogy. However what you are leaving out of your analogy, is that every franchise owner has the right to sell their business. The Football team can sell the franchise it just still has to be part of the NFL. Same...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Emily Barnett ·
@Malkazoid Wrote: I agree with his whole post actually. Very well said.
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Michael Farris ·
Quick correction @Malkazoid The analogy of franchise was used to say that "owner" is a perfectly good term even when property rights are limited and that fees are paid for said ownership to an organization. Nothing more. Narrative is not a franchise. I know that and you know that so don't take the argument there. I'll say the same about the "tax" analogy proposed in this discussion. It scores rhetorical points (everyone hates taxes) but doesn't do much more than that since no one in...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
@Michael Farris - it is precisely to the franchise-type use of the word "ownership" that I reacted... by pointing out that the profile that best fits the connectors and influencers who will naturally produce good niches also does not tend to be interested in franchise-type ownership. I'll say it again - these people tend not to consider that ownership at all. It doesn't matter if you consider it ownership, or a valid use of the word - it matters whether the people you want to attract do.
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Dias Flac ·
Sorry, I’ve been quite busy with my job and life in general so I haven’t been as active. Just a quick question, I thought I remember reading somewhere that eventually, we will have a tribunal. Is this something that the tribunal can discuss and change eventually? I see a lot of really good points from the community... and for what it’s worth, @Malkazoid , @Emily Barnett , @Bryan , and @Eduardo Hernández , y’all have my vote when the time comes. You’re all articulating some of my thoughts so...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Soňa ·
Hello again, I adress this mostly to the narrative team ( @Ted , @Rosemary , @Brian Lenz and others). There is a lot of discussion going on here and although you adressed it in some way, you pretty much avoided the key questions which is quite frustrating. I read the whole discussion yesterday evening and this morning for more 3 hours being all the time disturbed by my kids and it was just dissapointing reaching the end of it and still not hearing some explanation. I usually prefer to stay...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
Hi [email protected], I think you have misunderstood - but you're right that the question of flagging of motivation is an important aspect of this discussion. I have two stories for you that will hopefully make the situation clear. Story 1: The SAD story of the unmotivated niche operator who can't sell his niche Niche owner Wally has become lazy, doesn't shave anymore, and has let his garden patch go to seed. He also isn't maintaining his Narrative niche anymore. It was once a happening place, but he...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Emily Barnett ·
Hahahaha @Malkazoid i love your tenacity. Don't give up! You are right in this we should be able to sell in order to recoup our investment of time and money. I have no idea why the Core team seems to oppose this. It is absolutely no skin off their nose. The fact that they are unbending to make the investment team a little more comfortable with the level of risk to investment when it doesn't cost them nor the narrative platform any financial loss is beyond me. If nothing else you have gained...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
On average, human self interest outweighs considerations of what is best for the community. Especially if the niche operator bought the niche at auction, and gains nothing from selling it: the sense people will have is the niche is their's to keep as long as it serves them, since no other scenario does. I'd like to think maybe one in ten people might think of giving up the extra income, just for the good of the network, but I doubt it would even be that many - and remember, the person first...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Soňa ·
@Malkazoid Thanks for your reply yesterday ! I agree, the niche ownership, and mostly the ability to sell the niche makes sense... now that I contemplated this topic more, the model presented in white paper seems to me not so well thought out. I really hope that Narrative team will address those issues and questions eventually. Anyway, I am really looking forward to see your storytelling skills officially in action, hopefully six months from now
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Bryan ·
Sheesh... I take two steps away from a conversation and have to spend an hour catching up... thankfully, the conversation hasn't changed much. I would like to throw in my towel (I've already tossed my two cents) and say that I believe both sides have stated their case. And, it is my hope that Reason prevails. Both sides believe Reason to be on their side, and they're probably both right. If I might call upon my own analogy, that of the Aspiring Parents ... I might suggest that when a couple...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
Hehe - well I love the spirit of your message, but unfortunately both sides have not stated their case when it comes to real ownership of niches. That topic has been mostly ignored, without giving even a glance at the pros and cons I've laid out. It is frustrating and leads me to believe that silence is being maintained for one of three reasons: - the answer is something we wouldn't like - the topic is actually being discussed internally, and is pending a decision (in which case it would be...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
Thanks @Soňa , @Emily Barnett ... I only know the one story, so that's all the content I'll be contributing. Maybe I can recycle the characters and have them eating Oreos, and picking each other's noses instead of their own. That's as far as my imagination stretches.
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Soňa ·
Let's stay positive. There could still be a fourth reason: - Someone from the team is as of now kindly compiling an informative message overflowing with explanations long expected and consequently received with a single tear of happiness... Although I agree with Bryan that every system (and tools) would naturally get misused in some way over time, I still hope that Narrative system will address those issues more openly and that the platform will be in its final version built in a way to be...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Bryan ·
Now THIS is something I think I can actually help with! I might suggest converting the following elements of your story into variables that can then be swapped out to provide an endless supply of story combinations: reverse character genders, embellish with elaborate clothing descriptions, swap out the type of snack (don't forget to include breakfast, lunch, dinner options as well), explore a variety of pickable body orifices, swap synonyms for the verb "pick" (dig, churn, scrape, itch,...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Michael Farris ·
These are good discussions. Don't think because I'm not replying each time, I'm not reading and the team is not paying attention. We talk about these matters and consider where things pinch and where they are misunderstood and where a tweak is warranted. We don't write up policy changes in a forum discussion and there are 4 "Founder" members of the team along with other advisors. A lack of a speedy "we'll do this, now" doesn't mean we're ignoring you, it means we're thinking -- at length.
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
Yes - that 4th possibility is the best of all! Bring on the tears of joy. I really hope we make the right call on this - I believe it will be central to the platform's success, which is what we all want. It is less about the niche revenue for me, and more about the energy I'm putting into Narrative. I want to be sure I'm putting this passion and brain cycles into the platform that makes the right calls that allows it to grow as much as we all want it to.
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Rosemary ·
Process for Niche Reselling First of all, thank you to everyone who has invested time and effort into discussing the ins and outs of how Niches might be transferred from one person to another (i.e., the “ownership” question). This is exactly the type of intelligent and nuanced content we hope to see on Narrative itself once it launches. We have been paying very close attention to the conversation. In the white paper, we actually never spelled out the exact process for what happens if someone...
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Bryan ·
Somewhere... I believe, a @Malkazoid is weeping tears of joy.
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Emily Barnett ·
Hahahaha...well he worked very hard and was very articulate. I too am very happy with this news. It feels truely wonderful to present compelling arguments and have it be respected. Thank you @Rosemary @Ted @Michael Farris and the rest of the core team (I call you 5 the core, because I think all whom invest feel a part of the team now). Now lets make this thing shine!!
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

ClosetCrypto ·
That is Awesome! Thanks @Rosemary for the clarification
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Re: Chaucer Terms of Use - need some help here

Malkazoid ·
I am speechless and just so relieved. More later when I have a bit of time. Narrative, you rock. You are doing so many things right, and now my biggest misgiving is no more.
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