Tagged With "edit"

Topic

Improving the way misspelled niches are handled

Ted ·
Currently, only a niche owner can change a niche's name or description after it is initially created by the person that originally suggested it. Because of that, niches with misspellings are (rightfully) being rejected. And when that happens, the recourse is to have someone suggest the niche again, hopefully without misspellings. :) We've had some community members raise this as an issue ( here and here ): After considering the feedback and suggestions, we've come up with a way to fix these...
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Re: Improving the way misspelled niches are handled

MichelleG ·
Step 4 is key here. The suggester gets alerted once a typo is spotted then it's up to them to fix it. I really like this.
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Re: Improving the way misspelled niches are handled

Malkazoid ·
BUMP! Resurrecting this as the problem of misspellings and errors in niches and niche descriptions is continuing to be problematic. These measures outlined by @Ted could really help. The community has been very good at commenting on what the problems are with a niche. I'd say we're doing this effectively, about 90% of the time. Niche suggesters have been responsive in the comments perhaps 30% of the time, but with the email alerts @Ted mentions, I'm sure that could be boosted to 50% or more.
Topic

Is it CURRENTLY possible to edit the name/description of a niche you submitted?

Christina Gleason ·
I'm asking because of the Drinking Alcohol niche I suggested here: https://alpha.narrative.org/hq/approval/25946601693388838 I added a line about the legal drinking age specifically to avoid the "encouraging illegal activity" part of the TOS, but others find it problematic, which is pretty much the opposite of why I included it in the first place. (I am autistic and thought I was preventing a problem, not causing one!) I know there's been talk in here about being able to edit suggested niche...
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Re: Is it CURRENTLY possible to edit the name/description of a niche you submitted?

Malkazoid ·
Hi Christina, I wondered the same thing recently - and it does not seem that functionality has been added yet. A few days ago I tried to revive a thread where this was the topic: https://community.narrative.or...d-niches-are-handled But I wouldn't expect much in response until we're well clear of the New Year period. This functionality would be really helpful. Meanwhile, don't get discouraged! Your niche suggestions are great!
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Re: Is it CURRENTLY possible to edit the name/description of a niche you submitted?

Ted ·
To confirm what @Malkazoid said, that feature is not yet supported, unfortunately.
Question

Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Christina Gleason ·
...or is there any way for us to make suggestions for changes to the Tribunal? Because BLOG and Internet social media are TERRIBLE.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Ted ·
There is currently no way to give feedback like that (directly) to the niche owner. And niche owners are the only ones that can currently edit the niche names/descriptions, as well. I think the idea of letting the community suggest niche name/description edits may have merit, but then again there are a lot of people who think that only niche owners should completely control such things. In my view, niches are a public resource and because of that you can make an argument that community input...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Christina Gleason ·
Maybe one way to handle the "tons of edit requests" problem would be to only allow one active edit request at a time per niche. If the Tribunal approves it, no one else could request another edit for... 30 days? 60 days? I'm just tossing out numbers.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
I think you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't expect people to pay narrative money to own a niche, and then turn around and say it is the a public resource and up to the community to make changes to it. if we are owners of niches, then we are owners. This doesn't seem too difficult to me at all. Join the community. Engage with it by posting, voting, and commenting on it. Then direct message the owner once we have some sort of messaging in place (hopefully beta?) Not everything...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Robert Nicholson ·
@Ted - I agree with @Emily Barnett 100%. A "like" of her post isn't strong enough. The owner should be the arbiter of any changes to the niche name or description (with approval of the Tribunal).
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Christina Gleason ·
While I see your points, I still respectfully disagree. Redundant niches are not allowed. An uninvolved niche owner ignoring their duty to make their niche discoverable in search and show some semblance of professionalism hurts anyone who wants to contribute content on that particular topic. Blogging and Social Media aren't exactly long-tail niches, so having them stuck the way they are will hurt contributors. I wouldn't be averse to a system like I described above, where community members...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
Ownership is ownership. You cannot have it both ways. If I pay for something it is mine. I may allow it to be accessed by the community as a resource, because it serves us both, to do that, but it still has been bought and paid for, there for the decision on the name and description is mine to make. If it is redundant to someone else's previously purchased niche, then we have a mechanism in place to appeal that. But if the community prefers better grammar or description, that should be...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
I also think it is important to remember that owners ARE part of the community as well. They are not this MIA delinquent landlord type whom are out to mess up individual's content plans. Narrative has people of different education levels, different language levels, different levels of deep thought, and different activity levels, all participating in Narrative. Of course we all would love everything to be at University level writing, where everybody has a deep handle on the English language.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
Won't belabour this because we've said it all before... but in my opinion we should be looking at this first and foremost from the perspective of quality, so I tend to agree with Christina more. People don't have to have university level English because we have a community of people who are willing to help. Ownership is not incompatible with bylaws that upload quality. In the desirable neighbourhoods, cities, and countries of this world, it is common that owners of real estate still have to...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Christina Gleason ·
Good to see you back again, @Malkazoid . Your absence had been noticed!
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
I don't think anyone has suggested a laissez-faire fair approach @Malkazoid , quite to opposite. But @Ted went down the path of entrepreneurialism in the white papers, by making to niches purchasable. He went further, when after you and then I both campaigned for TRUE OWNERSHIP. Which we achieved. I am in full agreement that bylaws are a part of maintaining quality controls. And Narrative has those bylaws in place. We voted on niches to approve or not approve, prior to niches being...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
I don't get it. You'd be furious if someone corrected a spelling or grammar mistake for you?
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
I would vote this comment down if i could. Imagine if you your neighbor painted their house pink. you hated it. told them so, and still they ignored you. So when they went away to visit their sick mother, you decided to make it better quality and painted it blue, because after all you are part of the community. You don't have a right to do that. You didn't buy the house. You can report it to the bylaw officers. They can issue a ticket if it actually breaks a bylaw. that is it. Niches should...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Christina Gleason ·
@Emily Barnett , Heads up that two of your "niches I own" have broken links in your support community profile. I was taking a look at your niche descriptions, and I don't think anyone could reasonably suggest and get approval for the descriptions in your niches, because YOU DID YOUR JOB as an owner to make them good ones. It's the completely absent niche owners I'm worried about, the ones who will literally never come back to respond to feedback because they just want their 10%. I don't know...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Christina Gleason ·
But a house is private property. I don't invite people to come in and decorate my house and contribute to it so that I can (somehow) profit from their efforts. My house is not a workspace for people to come and show off their artwork or add to my book collection that doubles as a library or public reading room. I don't think your analogy works, because a private home is different than a public showcase.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
Bylaws commonly impose standards on what is done with private property. True ownership was always expressed by me, in the early days, as the ability to accrue capital gains by being able to sell niches. I never meant to support some sort of protection from owned niches having their descriptions improved if the owner goes MIA. Anyway, as I said, I'd support that the process happen in communication with owners whenever possible, as a collaborative effort, but with the authority for the quality...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
@Christina Gleason When we very first began, we didn't have spelling, or description as a legitimate reason for voting down a niche. That was only introduced months after the process began. So hopefully that clears up your confusion how this happened. @Malkazoid Personally no I wouldn't have a problem with my spelling mistakes being changed, but that isn't the point that is at risk with this suggestion that the community can make changes if after 7 days they get no response. Surely you can...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
That's what is being suggested. Bylaws can force you to modify the way your property presents, to align with what the bylaws allow. We're not proposing that any random community member can come and 'repaint' your niche. We're proposing some form of authority - akin to bylaw officers - for Narrative. And if your niche description has spelling mistakes or grammar mistakes, or has a scope mismatch between name and description, they should have the authority to work with you to fix such problems.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
It already is an issue. Christina has been saying this repeatedly. There is no guarantee that there will be a way to message owners. I seem to recall the team saying that won't exist at launch. They seem to not be putting much emphasis on the social aspect of Narrative for now. In any event, I think we should step back and recognise that a systemic problem requires a systemic fix. Just hoping it will all get cleared up by individuals making suggestions to niche owners - is a recipe for mixed...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
that is what the tribunal is. they are the by law. Actually yes, @Christina Gleason did suggest that if nobody responded in say 7 days, the changes could be made. I think there is just too much talk about policing grammar. Just send the owner a message, on how to change it. If they are smart they will take the advice. So many rules.....have some faith in people.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
No - they aren't. They have made very clear they do not view it as their role to make corrections. Not sure what Christina said, but personally I would favour an official quality control team - and yes, if the owner doesn't respond, they should be able to make fixes anyway. 7 days might be too short, but the buck has to stop somewhere, and sometime. "If they are smart"... Not everyone is. Lets be real here. It isn't even a question of smarts in many cases: it is a question of whether the...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
Bowing out now - that's all my Narrative time gone up in smoke! Thanks for the discussion.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
The team would be foolish to not put in some way of sending a message to people. I don't believe that they are stepping back from the social aspect of it. I haven't gotten that impression at all. I am not trying to be argumentative with either of you. I just have faith that these "lesser quality" niches that you refer to will either get fixed, or sink rapidly to the bottom. I don't equate Narrative to an airplane where "poor quality" will result in no lift of the wings, and result in the...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
I get that....i have been in my studio for an hour already.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Garden Gnome Publications ·
Okay, I've had a couple of brandies so forgive me if this sounds stupid. I skipped over a few comments to chime in and I'll come back to read the rest tomorrow. I think this discussion of "niche ownership" is somewhat passé. When you "buy" a niche, you are technically only leasing it. You get it for a year, then you have to renew it. So, what happens if someone decides not to renew the niche? Who controls it then? If a niche remains "unowned" for a period of time because it is "pink," who...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
@Ted is there plans to have some sort of messaging system? I cannot believe that it wouldn't. Narrative would hardly be competitive with out it. But giving the group some clarity on this topic, would help dissipate anxieties that are flowing about the need to control the quality of people's purchased niche's. Thank you.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
My analogy perfectly works. You can invite people over to your house all the time. if people don't like your house they can suggest you fix it up, or they can refuse to visit. And as the house owner, you can take the suggestion and improve your house if you value having company.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
Emily - I think you are focusing only on how your analogy works, and ignoring how Christina is showing you the important ways in which it does not work. It bears repeating for the nth time that niches are unique, and have public utility. You can try to ignore this as much as you want, it remains true. A person who disapproves of how a niche presents isn't just getting a negative impression of the one niche. They're comparing it to categories on other sites - ones that do have quality...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
You left out: What percentage of people will feel entitled to the niche, because they are a regular contributor, and therefore start changing the niche to reflect more of what they want it to be, through enforced community changes? What you and Christina are proposing has flaws as well. Those ones seem worse to me. It hasn't even launched yet. I don't think Narrative is going to spontaneously combust on April 4th because we have some poorly crafted niches. I just don't. Youtube, instgram,...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
How would that be a danger? If there is a dedicated QC team, how do you propose they be manipulated by individual regular contributors, and bent to their will? I've been really clear and simple in my proposal: a QC team that targets spelling mistakes, grammar mistakes and mismatches in scope. That doesn't sound like a body that is going to start kowtowing to individual desires to modify the intent of a niche. I've even been really specific in saying the QC team should work WITH niche owners...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
@Malkazoid you didn't debunk anything, you just said that it wouldn't happen. I can say the same thing to your questions. "that won't happen." There i have debunked your claims. A QC team is just as suggestive as, the tribunal, and the niche approval process, which we have seen over and over again, don't always get it right. In fact, in my opinion there is already a niche suggestion at the moment that I think demonstrates more of my point than yours. People do a lot of funny things to be...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
Emily: we've been over this. The Tribunal's role, as they see it, is not to make any fixes to niches. So why are you now saying a QC team, whose explicit role would be to arrive at, and make fixes with the niche owner, is just as 'suggestive' as the Tribunal? I've said really clearly I'm proposing that the QC Team should have authority to make fixes within the tight definition of spelling mistakes, grammar mistakes, and scope mismatches. I feel like a lot of what I'm saying isn't sinking in.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Garden Gnome Publications ·
This has been a very enlightening discussion. Both sides are making good points, but there is a real-world example of this problem riding through the Niche approval process right now. Unfortunately, it looks like I'm going to be banned from suggesting more niches for another week because of a silly little typo (and as anal as I am about language, I'm ashamed I made it). I suggested the Poetics niche , which is likely to be unprofitable and only garner the interest of a few people on the...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Christina Gleason ·
I just want to add that my "if the niche owner doesn't respond in 7 days..." was an arbitrary length of time I chose. Narrative would certainly take multiple factors into account before actually deciding upon a reasonable amount of time to wait for a niche owner to respond.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Christina Gleason ·
@Garden Gnome Publications I made my vote too late to try to change anyone's minds with my comment on Poetics. I think it's a shame not only that you get the time-out that comes with a rejected niche, but also that "Poetics" itself is unavailable as a niche name for all of the foreseeable future.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
Thanks @Garden Gnome Publications for the reminder that the lack of any direction from the team about even the intent to correct mistakes in the future, is causing many of us to feel like voting is the only way to insure quality. Simply stating that a QC team will be put in place to fix simple mistakes would give us license to relax and vote in niches that can easily be fixed later. That would go a long way. But the best time for that was months ago, before the Team got too busy with trying...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
There is nothing wrong with suggesting Poetic Techniques @Garden Gnome Publications btw I just changed my vote because @Bart is right with his comment. Hopefully more people see his comment and change it. Maybe start a new thread and campaign for votes. I have seen this done quite effectively in the past. @Malkazoid People defer to others, and definitely some people seem to have influence on this platform. We have seen it in both levels discussed here, niche voting, and I believe also in...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
aha! Something we agree on again. I too wish that @Narrative had put into place a time frame to hold a funeral for unpurchased niches. I think this is a far superior suggestion to fixing this problem than to implement Grammar Police.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
You are manifestly capable of processing ideas - things don't sink in for a number of reasons, even when people are very capable. As I explicitly mentioned - your heart isn't in the conversation, and you think we should just wait and see what develops: that's why I think what I said about a QC Team having authority to make strictly defined fixes was not sinking in. Because you're tired of the conversation. I said this very clearly. If you want to turn this into me insulting your...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Robert Nicholson ·
One the the great problems I have with community moderation is that usually a petty bureaucracy becomes entrenched, and drives away everyone else. This is exactly the kind of thing that I see coming. Yes, there are some niches that could be improved. So what? It's not going to kill the platform. I think the ability to message the niche owner would deal with the problem 90% of the time.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Emily Barnett ·
You can't change someone's niche. Hopefully they will put a time frame on how long an unpurchased niche will stay on the rejected list before being removed. A very simple solution. Just because you feel a certain way about something doesn't mean you are right. I happen to think you are not right on this topic. It has nothing to do with my heart being in, or not in the topic. I just don't agree with you. That also doesn't make me wrong. I certainly do feel that there is a certain amount of...
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Robert Nicholson ·
And if this discussion really is about quality , and not control , then the best thing Narrative could do it to build a spelling and grammar checker into the niche and post editor.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Garden Gnome Publications ·
Exactly. If this doesn't pass, the perfect name for the niche will be lost forever. That's the real shame in this. I saw that Emily changed her vote based on Bart's reading. Clever reading, but not what I intended. I may have to take Emily up on her suggestion to start a community thread. I'm not sure how I'd approach that.
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Re: Is there any way to tell a niche owner that their name/description sucks and should be edited?

Malkazoid ·
You are at once very optimistic about messaging being enough to resolve the problems 90% of the time, and very pessimistic about a QC Team becoming a petty bureaucracy. Few people like bureaucracy Robert. But they tend to overwhelmingly do a better job than leaving things up to chance. In any event, the QC Team wouldn't be much of a bureaucracy. It would take a couple of people perhaps less than one week to work through all the problem niches we already have, and if the creation of new...
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