Tagged With "rep hit"

Issue

Niche upvoting seems the easy route for rep gain

Vico Biscotti ·
I may be wrong but I see that most of the accounts who want to gain rep in short time have one thing in common: serial upvoting of niches. I experienced myself that ONLY upvoting niches got me at least one point in rep. True or not true, this is what most users know. And this changes the niche approval process from "upvoting what makes sense" to "upvote anything" in the hope of gaining rep. Upvoting niches may be part of the activity, but getting rep for upvoting anything doesn't seem to...
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Re: Niche upvoting seems the easy route for rep gain

Malkazoid ·
I understand the concern as being about the perception that upvoting is a better route for rep accrual, leading to too many upvotes? Just confirming I understood you correctly @Vico Biscotti ? I agree, that perception probably exists, through a combination of two factors: the possible belief that downvoting too much might hurt reputation the possible belief that upvoting a niche that gets rejected does not harm reputation I agree we should try to educate everyone as to the reality concerning...
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Re: Niche upvoting seems the easy route for rep gain

Vico Biscotti ·
Actually, @Malkazoid , I'm concerned about upvoting niches being an easy route for rep gain. If I'm wrong, then I'm concerned about upvoting niches being misused because of wrong beliefs.
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Re: Niche upvoting seems the easy route for rep gain

Christina Gleason ·
I think voting on niche suggestions - up OR down - should no longer be a reputation gaining activity. Neither should suggesting niches. I think we've all watched new user accounts do nothing but suggest and vote on niches until they have 30-40 rep. Maybe they start posting then, but I suspect many of them never start posting at, but instead act as sock puppet accounts with higher rep to vote for the user who created these accounts.
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Re: Niche upvoting seems the easy route for rep gain

BloggerKrunal ·
How about this! Only Medium or High rep users can suggest Niches and vote on it but they will not gain any kind of benefits from it?
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Re: Niche upvoting seems the easy route for rep gain

Christina Gleason ·
I don't see any reason to limit who can suggest and vote on niches as long as there is no benefit attached to doing so. No reason to keep new accounts completely disengaged, as their votes don't count as much until they earn reputation on the platform.
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Re: Niche upvoting seems the easy route for rep gain

BloggerKrunal ·
The reason to exclude low rep users is, they don't jump on suggestions or voting on Niches without syncing themselves with Narrative thoroughly. And we can avoid some spammers who might jump on Niches directly without contributing anything or understanding anything about the Narrative or how the Niche structure works. They might end up having a thought of using Niches as hashtags. Or we can see multiple Niches in a day from every newbie. Imagine having 100K users with having norestriction.
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Re: Niche upvoting seems the easy route for rep gain

Garden Gnome Publications ·
I'd be okay with doing away with rep enhancement for niche voting and suggesting altogether. We have way too many unbought niches. There is an abundance of niches that have yet to be purchased, and it doesn't look good when non-Narrators show up and see all of those niches with no owners. If someone wants to suggest a niche and buy it, that's one thing, but serially suggesting niches that never get bought while enhancing one's rep isn't helping the platform. As @Vico Biscotti said, many new...
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Re: Niche upvoting seems the easy route for rep gain

Christina Gleason ·
My statement stands that reputation shouldn't affect niche suggestions. But I'd thought the current rule was that you could suggest one per day if you didn't have 50 rep, not that you couldn't suggest them at all. Hmm.
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Re: Niche upvoting seems the easy route for rep gain

Malkazoid ·
Tagging @Ted , @MOLLY O - and if there is someone more appropriate to have this discussion, they can designate that person. This notion has popped up before, and has strong support - and I really think this is a good time to translate some of these thoughts into action.
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Re: Niche upvoting seems the easy route for rep gain

J Bandel ·
I agree that rep enhancement for upvoting niches is no longer helping things out! There are way too many unusable niches right now IMHO...Time for a little discretion...
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Re: Niche upvoting seems the easy route for rep gain

Sardart ·
The problem was recently addressed by @nik https://www.narrative.org/post/so-many-niches
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Re: Niche upvoting seems the easy route for rep gain

@nikail ·
I agree @Vico Biscotti and it seems to be other down voting as well (not just niche suggestions). Why does my rep score down if I give a low quality score to someone else for having low quality? Now, I only want to give thumbs up and agree with everything so my score doesn't go down. Doesn't make sense.
Issue

The death of Simple Rep

Malkazoid ·
Hello all, So we've all noticed the change in rep calculation. Overall, the changes have leveled the playing field, which is not necessarily a bad thing. But I'd like to dig a little deeper and see if perhaps we've gone a little too far with this change. My understanding of Simple Rep is that it accrued with voting, suggesting niches and commenting. The logic behind this was simple but important: it is good to motivate users to participate in these important aspects of Narrative. It not only...
Topic

Reputation!

Malkazoid ·
Congratulations on the speedy implementation of reputation in the alpha. The secret sauce has been poured! I'll probably have more thoughts as the mechanism of Rep unfolds (not by disclosure but by observation - I understand that the Team won't reveal any secrets, and rightly so). But here are my initial thoughts: Puny reps We are but children starting our journey on Narrative, and it is fitting that our reps should be low at this stage! Relish the sensation of being puny, and look forward...
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Re: Reputation!

Malkazoid ·
I know the secret sauce recipe must be protected from the forces of evil, but can any light be shone on the vote points? Great to see reputation seems to be affecting the Niche Approval votes, but the vote point amounts don't follow any discernible pattern, from a user's perspective, and it would be helpful for people to at least know what the rationale behind them is. For instance a vague description such as "The higher a person's Simple Rep, the higher the voting points their vote...
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Re: Reputation!

Malkazoid ·
There is also a confusing passage in the following Medium post about Reputation published by @Ted https://blog.narrative.network...rrative-e43c2b0e9fd2 Molly has a Simplerep score of 18 right now. I can't bring myself to imagine that more than half her SimpleRep points are negative, so the above statement does not appear to be true? I also have not been able to find anyone with a SimpleRep of 50 or more (not even 30), which means that every single user currently has more negative points than...
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Re: Reputation!

chrisabdey ·
Oi Ve - I got 12 ....
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Re: Reputation!

chrisabdey ·
How DID I get so many negative points lol... https://prnt.sc/lxjf96
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Re: Reputation!

freedom ·
I have a 22 and a few sad faces aww I'm a Tony Good questions though I would also like to know a bit of the mechanics related to that.
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Re: Reputation!

Malkazoid ·
Every time you think naughty thoughts, you get negative Narrative rep points? No, I know! Every time you post on Facebook!
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Re: Reputation!

chrisabdey ·
I'm already seeing a bias - Founders have a head start on rep it seems?
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Re: Reputation!

chrisabdey ·
Like, I wouldn't want to see me having more rep than someone else just because I owned some niches - so... But if I do - that still doesn't seem quite right. Now, with time, my contributions to those niches would obviously add or subtract, but isn't that like "buying" reputation if you get reputation simply for the act of having a niche?
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Re: Reputation!

Malkazoid ·
I'm pretty sure I can reassure you on that front. The word seems to be that at this time, only voting and suggesting niches affects reputation. And I don't think they have any plans for owning a niche to automatically give you extra rep.
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Re: Reputation!

chrisabdey ·
Wow, I must need to get voting then LOL - Or I must have had a ton of negative rep for wrong votes? hmmm....
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Re: Reputation!

Malkazoid ·
Difficult to say... the ways of the Rep are mysterious indeed. But yes, get voting! I'm off to vote now
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Re: Reputation!

Christina Gleason ·
I've voted on practically everything. I have a rep of 5, with 1 for simple rep, 13 for QA, and 0 for certified. (Are we all 0 for certified because there's no KYC yet?) This is disheartening, because I've tried to be active by voting and leaving comments.
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Re: Reputation!

Bryan ·
Everyone starts at 0.01 . . a score according to their rep (which is admittedly low due to incomplete scoring functionality) which can be found here: see: Rating and Voting Formula table or, rather, their voting score is reset to 0.01 for any activity that happens AFTER the launch of reputation. Before that, everyone was innocent until proven guilty with a 1.0 score. So, while the low rep scores were explained as "not having complete data" to give a full score cushioning the appearance of a...
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Re: Reputation!

Malkazoid ·
I can attest to seeing you vote and comment A LOT. I feel like you have been the most frequent voter in recent times: you're everywhere on niche approvals! Maybe the @Narrative Network Team can look into it... Yes, everyone has 0 for certified. The functionality for getting certified has not been rolled out yet.
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Re: Reputation!

Malkazoid ·
BTW, the number of votes are no longer listed on the niche approval page. Is the requirement still 20 votes before a niche can be approved? If so, it would be good to bring back that display.
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Re: Reputation!

Brian Lenz ·
Now that reputation is live, the impact of one's vote is based on their reputation. It's a graduated scale based on your total reputation score. The exact breakdown can be found in this table in the spec: https://spec.narrative.org/doc...g-and-voting-formula It's expected that everyone has low-ish reputation at this point since we don't have the ability to post content, rate content, or comment on posts. Once we get to that point, there will be many other factors driving your overall...
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Re: Reputation!

Bryan ·
Christina, I also felt very unjustly reduced. But, I think the short answer is... don't worry about the low scores right now. They are disheartening, yes. But, they are merely a function of new things being introduced + date confused by time and sequence + resetting all the runners to the starting line... Keep up the good work, it will iron out.
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Re: Reputation!

Erik Blair ·
I apparently have a 4 reputation despite my early adoption, many comments, likes, niche suggestions, niche voting, owning niches, etc. So, without reading this whole page, I already feel disenchanted with the reputation system as it currently is.
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Re: Reputation!

Bryan ·
Thanks Brian! The voting formula table is very helpful. I think everyone can handle an interim "low" period with some hiccups... but I think how that "designed behavior" was (or was not) communicated caught many by surprise. Self-included. The existing ballots will probably need very careful scrutiny by Tribunal to make sure that 1 pre-rep vote (worth 1.0) doesn't override 20 new, artificially-low, rep-adjusted votes (only worth 0.2). All told, worries have been assuaged. Looking forward to...
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Re: Reputation!

Bryan ·
I'd encourage you not to take these scores personally yet. I was, and it wrecked my morning... I am not very gracious, and tend to jump to worst-case scenarios. So, I'm saying to myself NOW what I wish I had heard 5 hours ago when I saw the new numbers. Those reputation profiles are incomplete. They will balance out. #hope
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Re: Reputation!

Malkazoid ·
Hey Brian, Thanks for this. I'm still concerned about the current batch of niche approvals. We have to be careful when we ask people to vote - our democracy is on trial every time a single election is not taken seriously enough by the platform. Many of the results of this batch of niches under approval at the time of rep launch will essentially be invalid. I don't think we can just live with that and say it is a one off. It isn't. There will be other glitches in voting in the future, no...
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Re: Reputation!

Malkazoid ·
@Brian Lenz - just realised there is an easier way (not sure why I didn't see it straight away). If a niche was being voted on for approval when the rep launch happened, you could just ask your script to tally the votes the old way, ignoring the weighting entirely. Then you have a list of fair results, which can be compared with the actual results - and when there is a mismatch, that's a niche the Tribunal has to act upon...
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Re: Reputation!

Malkazoid ·
One other important consideration, @Brian Lenz : if we don't homogenize the voting point types live in the system, voting will be biased by the perception left by the votes that were in place prior to the rep system launch. For example, lets say someone suggests a niche that is redundant. He immediately votes to approve the niche he has just suggested. Then the rep system launches, and his vote is given a weight of 1.0. Five subsequent voters see that the niche is redundant and downvote it,...
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Re: Reputation!

Brian Lenz ·
Hi @Malkazoid , Yep, I get what you're saying. We made the call that this was a very low risk proposition. If your hypothetical scenario has occurred (which I don't believe it has), we will trust in the fact that niches can be appealed to the Tribunal. We have people on our team regularly paying attention to niches and identifying those that are redundant or invalid for any other reason. There's always the possibility that a niche sneaks through, and if that happens, it can be appealed. As...
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Re: Reputation!

Malkazoid ·
Nice - this is what I was hoping for. I don't know that the problem has occurred yet, but over the course of the next few days, many niches that got caught in the rep launch zone will end, and it is highly likely some of them will have the wrong results. As long as you guys are aware some things are likely to need fixing by the Tribunal, and are actively scanning for them - we should be sweet. And thanks for clarifying that it was a time factor that stood behind the decision to update in...
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Re: The death of Simple Rep

Ted ·
FYI Simple Rep scores were not really impacted by quantity (number of times you voted/rated), so that is a red herring. You might argue that rating/voting more might help you get out of Reputation Negative status sooner, but fewer people will ever be Conduct Negative (the equivalent of Reputation Negative) going forward anyway. The Narrative Rewards system is designed to incentivize rating/voting.
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Re: The death of Simple Rep

Erik Blair ·
At first glance, I see this in my "Reputation" profile: QUALITY ANALYSIS (60%) A score that reflects the quality of your content, comments, followers, and more. In thinking about how my activity has had an impact upon that quality rating or not, I wonder... why my score is so low . I have been involved wholeheartedly since the very beginning, and I have commented, shared, recruited, posted, purchased, recommended, voted, suggested, and more. Yet my "quality score" is a 6 . I spend what...
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Re: The death of Simple Rep

Malkazoid ·
Well - not a red herring - a misunderstanding perhaps, which is to be expected since the community does not understand the mechanics of the reputation system. Rather than try to guess at what is behind the curtain in precise terms, I'll simplify things by being more general. Am I and others wrong in sensing that our reputation was growing over time with sustained contributions, and that that growth has been removed? People who joined a week ago have the same rep as people who have been...
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Re: The death of Simple Rep

Christina Gleason ·
I have spent entire days with the approvals tab open, refreshing it every hour or so to vote on new suggestions and comment where appropriate. I comment EXTENSIVELY. Now my vote percentage is all the way back down to newbie level. (I'm still waiting to be certified from last night.) I've never had any of my suggested niches rejected. I vote on almost every single niche suggested. I was rather shocked to see that my lower score was deemed "more accurate," as people who have had several niches...
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Re: The death of Simple Rep

Erik Blair ·
Anybody that spends an hour a month voting or suggesting should have a high 'quality analysis' in my humble opinion. But why listen to me, I only have a 6.
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Re: The death of Simple Rep

Malkazoid ·
Well the time spent doesn't guarantee the quality aspect... but certainly the quantity should influence things as well as quality. If two Narrators are producing the same quality output in terms of votes and comments and niche suggestions, but one has contributed four times more than the other in the past month, they should not end up with the same score. Yet that seems to be what we're seeing since people who started a week ago can have the same overall rep as people who have been around...
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Re: The death of Simple Rep

Erik Blair ·
I got aboard this train some time ago. I purchased a couple of niches, voted, suggested, commented, promoted, recruited, submitted issues to tribunal, liked comments, followed people, etc, and did what I could to participate. But now, after all this time I have a Quality Analysis score of 6. My overall reputation score is 44, and it suggests that I need a score of 85 to get the perks of my efforts. To me that either says something significantly wrong with the metric or the whole system is...
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Re: The death of Simple Rep

MOLLY O ·
I think it is important to remember that there is still not a lot you can do on the platform to measure quality. When content streams go live - there will be many more things you can do to earn quality points. For those of you who have been working diligently in the platform voting on niches, you are earning Narrative Rewards for this activity. You should be earning a lot more than the person who came 2 weeks ago. https://spec.narrative.org/docs/network-rewards
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Re: The death of Simple Rep

Erik Blair ·
@MOLLY O I must be reading the rewards spec wrong. Says Activity and Electorate " will not be added until Q2/Q3 2019". Also, where do I see the Activity Rewards I have received from actively voting? I just found the minimum "committed NRVE" to participate clause. So in other words, since I don't have 2,000 NRVE in my account, I have basically lost all my participation for the last 6 months... am I reading this wrong? If not, then someone should be spelling this out a whole lot better during...
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Re: The death of Simple Rep

Malkazoid ·
I'm stuck in the past - I never noticed that Activity Points had become actual rewards, rather than a qualifying metric required to be able to earn rewards, as I believe it was in the white paper. Are we earning rewards now? I thought that only started at launch time... Right now, I thought all we were doing was building reputation...
 
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