Tagged With "circle"

Topic

We all have our own circle of influnces, great to tap into them to tell our friends about this gem!

Harj ·
I have a large following on Steemit and twitter and think I can max that leverage to promote Narrative and have gained a good amount of interest in this gem. https://steemit.com/narrative/@harj/narrative-the-new-content-economy-is-on-its-way I mean Narrative is going to do very well indeed but I guess every little helps : )
Question

YES or NO question: Will Narrative ever penalize downvoting circles?

Christina Gleason ·
Everyone knows that at least one large downvoting circle exists that includes at least one high-reputation member, if not more than one. Those of us who are often the targets of mass downvotes know it. Other people who comment on our posts are beginning to feel it, too, because COMMENTS on our posts, or comments we make on other people's posts, are getting downvoted, and it cannot be easily argued that these are low quality. Heck, even people who aren't often targets of the downvoters have...
Conversation

Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Nuno Moreiras ·
I should start this discussion by asking: "Where Is Narrative Going?" like so many posts and issues before, but like with any community governed platform that answer will always remain unclear. So I will start by mentioning some of those who I've seen working hard for the future of this community, such as @Malkazoid, who suggested that I'd bring this issue here, @Christina Gleason or @BloggerKrunal among some others. Anyway, a somewhat heated...
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Re: We all have our own circle of influnces, great to tap into them to tell our friends about this gem!

Dinuxen ·
Upvoted and best article We want go head with our narrative like steemit we want add more functions like steemit
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Re: We all have our own circle of influnces, great to tap into them to tell our friends about this gem!

Harj ·
I think Dinuxen, Narrative is going to be 10x better than steemit TED has huge plans outlined in his whitepaper. I think Narrative is much better! and financialy it will work for Narrators much more. : )
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Malkazoid ·
Thanks for taking the time to transpose the discussion here @Nuno Moreiras . The Community and the Company need to have an in depth exchange over this core problem. The first thing I would like to do is to ask @David Dreezer not to change this issue into a suggestion or conversation. It is clear to me that @Nuno Moreiras sees that there is potentially something systemic that needs to change in order to fix this problem, and that can only happen via the Company. So for now - until the...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Serroc ·
I understand the premise and the concern. And I think the conversation is worth having - because I see many really lengthy and excellent articles get lost in the flurry of Visual posts. I participate in many of the niches that might be considered "spammy" while trying to maintain some level of quality. I recall in another suggestion here in the community, we were all discussing some way of splitting out written articles from visual offerings, because - like it or not, the internet has...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

BloggerKrunal ·
Yes @Malkazoid you're right. We should keep this thread as an issue only. I would like to ask @Nuno Moreiras to remove "a discussion" from the title of this issue for the safer side. We do have a messy situation here about short and low quality contents on Narrative. @Serroc said it very well about why Memes are trending on Internet. Narrative is already flooded with multiple short content oriented niches and "pictures" is the core subject of that. There's nothing wrong in that until we...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Robert Nicholson ·
I've run a number of online rating and review sites that offered a star rating system. Looking at tens of millions of ratings, I can tell you that the majority of people rate something 1-star or 5-stars. You can see this yourself looking at product reviews on Amazon, or reviews on Yelp. We currently have a three-option scale: upvote, downvote, or don't vote at all. Frankly, for me those three options are more than enough.
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

New Social Media ·
We must find a way to deal with low-quality posts and a daily posting limit for users who do not stake would at least help to force heavy users to commit tokens. A higher NRVE value will increase the rewards for content creators and attract better and more content creators. Please join this important discussion! Thank you indeed! https://www.narrative.org/post...l-staking-mechanisms
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Malkazoid ·
Here are some of the tough questions I would like to see us grapple with: 1) should Narrative continue to try to be home both to high quality content and low quality content 2) should Narrative continue to try to be home to both short form and long from content 3) If the answer to 1) and 2) is YES, then should there be some separation of high and low quality on the niche level, and some separation of short and long form content? -------------------------------------- There are multiple ways...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Colleen Ryer ·
Think that separating the content in ways that make it easy for readers to choose the type of content they want would be a good first step. There are still quality issues within niches independent of type of content, but sufficient tools to deal with this aren't available yet. The face Narrative shows to the online world matters, and I really think a variety of content types is a major bonus attraction. It's a matter of how it's presented - and that the presentation makes it worthwhile for...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Christina Gleason ·
Thanks for tagging me into the conversation, @Nuno Moreiras . I will readily admit that, a few weeks ago, I stopped posting long form content (except for a few posts about Narrative itself) and started posting in the UVC niche you didn't fully redact in your post here. (Although the voting circle was something I intended to benefit from!) Why? Because I was frustrated that those posts were getting all the votes, and hell, I can find appropriate photos to fit the theme. So why not get mine,...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Antimetica ·
Great mockup Christina. A javascript word count checker could be implemented if someone checks the text box, that could prevent a post from being published if it didn't meet a minimum. It's been a long time since I did front end development, but this kind of solution is so far the easier of all the others proposed (voting changes, algos, etc.). There would be a bit of time required for the company to gather up the categories. I'm not sure if that would be done by hand, or if they can just...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Antimetica ·
Also if this filtering is implemented, Niche Proposals going forward should have this same check box dialogue where the proposer should check which category it goes into, so that way the devs don't have to worry about it in the future. Although it should be decided it a niche could accommodate multiple categories of type of content. I think it would be perfectly reasonable to check all 4, but some might be more suited to just 1 or 2.
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Antimetica ·
Sorry for the short string of commenting. A possible easy way for Narrative Company to sort existing content would be to email or prompt every niche owner to categorize their niches. Not a 100% solution due to absent niche owners, but could cut down on a lot of work.
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Nuno Moreiras ·
" Discussion " removed from the Title as suggested by @BloggerKrunal . I think a very important part of the problem is exactly what @Christina Gleason has mentioned. Even Narrators who strive to create quality content will sooner or later fall to these quick & easy niches, because at some point lets face it, it's either die a hero or see yourself become the villain . I kinda exploded with this topic on the niche approval comment that led to all this discussion, because on that day, I...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Sardart ·
I don't understand why the post that introduced this discussion does not correctly cite the niche object of criticism (Color Challenge) and its owner, which would be me. I don't understand the censorship! If this niche, as he says NUNO MOREIRAS ""is is one of the biggest cancers in Narrative at the moment, massive quantity of low quality content " , I expect the wise decision of the team to obscure this niche. No problem for me. In case you know where to return the NRVEs I paid for this...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Antimetica ·
This issue is starting to get muddied for me. Should a separate thread be about the UI proposed solutions? I think it's been determined the Narrative Staff is not going to make changes to the algorithms or quality weights, but they haven't weighed in. It's difficult for me to vote this suggestion because I do not agree with whymonkey's assessment of sardart's niche. But yet, I do find the suggestions, and Christina's mockups, very valuable, and that is what I would want to put my efforts on.
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Nuno Moreiras ·
@Sardart i don't cite you and the Color Challenge niche because you are only a small part of a much larger problem... The problem is not only the Color Challenge niche is a community mentally issue. If you don't take it so personally and take the time to read what I wrote you'd also read that: "Do I disagree that such Niches should exist? Not at all. They are as much part of Narrative as any other Niche, what I am saying is that content with completely different standards of value is being...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Christina Gleason ·
@Sardart I wouldn't post to your niche if I thought it didn't belong on Narrative, but I think the bigger picture argument is that there are a large number of "low effort to participate and get more votes" niches, especially photo based, that are literally burying long, well researched text-based posts that never see more than a vote or two because of the proliferation of easy-to-post, easy-to-consume content. This is not necessarily the fault of the niche owners here. (I don't see you...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

David Dreezer ·
For housekeeping purposes I have reclassified this topic as a conversation. We consider issues to be unintended problems with the software "I posted in italics and it came out in the wrong color" or " Image uploading isn't working" would be examples.
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Garden Gnome Publications ·
I'd like to downvote that comment.
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Nuno Moreiras ·
After the initial post, the first thing that was said by @Malkazoid was literally: "The first thing I would like to do is to ask @David Dreezer not to change this issue into a suggestion or conversation. It is clear to me that @Nuno Moreiras sees that there is potentially something systemic that needs to change in order to fix this problem, and that can only happen via the Company. So for now - until the conversation has played out, please do not conclude there is nothing for the Team to...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Vico Biscotti ·
This is a major problem, and maybe the most important of the platform, in my opinion. It was clear since the beginning that different types of content - with undifferentiated metrics and presentation - would lead to an unfair competition which could only end up in the fast-food of content. I'm with @Malkazoid that the questions about which type of content should find home here is fundamental. If the answer is "any type of content", then it's clear that you can't treat a photo - however...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Fiona ·
@malkazoid I think there is another issue: what is the role of niche owners and moderators in all of this. I am still on a learning curve (steep), but I would have thought that as an element of the governance of Narrative they'd have a role to play in this. Or am I missing something?
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

BloggerKrunal ·
So much to go through in just 2 days. Well if you guys haven't read the Narrative WhitePaper then please read the page no. 45. I've shared it below with some highlights. It says, THE FUTURE While the initial focus is on blog content, Narrative’s ultimate goal is to be the Amazon of content , eventually offering support for podcasts, video, and potentially even original programming/films. The content economy created and maintained by Narrative can be extended to support brand-controlled...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Colleen Ryer ·
@bloggerkrunal -thanks for the snippet of whitepaper - I really don't remember this part, admittedly a long time since I read the paper... I would like to see all kinds of content - as long as each type gets a fair shot at it. I agree, 10 posts a day is too much - but I'm more concerned about a simple, yet effective way to categorize content that makes the most of it for readers and content creators. @Christina Gleason and @Vico Biscotti , among others have suggested various feed/filter...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Nuno Moreiras ·
I know I said I wouldn't come back here, but I accidentaly stumbled upon good evidence of what I mentioned above: This is a post by @Garden Gnome Publications on 15 of May, highlighting the Top 10 niches: https://www.narrative.org/post...-say-about-narrative They were: Independent Music Musicians Photography Music Writing Art Poetry I'm not sure of the order, but the other 3 were Narrative Community, Cryptocurrencies and Nature. Currently, these are the Top 10 Niches: The writing niches were...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Garden Gnome Publications ·
To be fair @Nuno Moreiras , the Writing niche that was in the Top 10 in May was challenged and rejected, so that's why it's no longer there. A new Writing niche has replaced it, but it hasn't had time to catch up. That left room for another niche to move it. Unfortunately, it was a niche filled with spam, as most of those in the Top 10 are. The problem isn't that these are mostly visual niches. It's that they are mostly filled with spam. The Cryptocurrency niche is another one with...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Garden Gnome Publications ·
@Colleen Ryer , I went through today and unfollowed a bunch of niches and some Narrators so I could clean up my Home channel. Anything that had a high degree of spam attached to it, even if it was a niche I was interested in, I unfollowed it. Any Narrators posting to spam niches frequently, I unfollowed them. I am going to be judicious going forward in who I follow. If they don't post a fair amount of the content I'm really interested, they won't be followed me. I did also add a few people...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Malkazoid ·
@Fiona - you have the same intuition everyone has had - except for the @Narrative Network Team . Of course, niche owners and moderators should be able to act against these issues. As things stand, the Team has not revised its position that niche owners have no influence whatsoever on niche operations, and moderators have only one role: to reject content that does not fit the topic of the niche. Every single Narrator involved in the numerous discussions surrounding these matters, has wanted...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Antimetica ·
I really like the idea of separating and filtering the content. I oppose " and implement to reward them differently" *** This to me is two separate requests to the Company, can we discuss them separately too? The reason I keep bringing this up is because separating/filtering is a UI front end change we have a chance maybe to have changed, should it be suggested on its own. If we add in "reward them differently" that's completely more complex, involving the aglo and voting system, which the...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Malkazoid ·
I agree these are two separate angles, although they are united in that they aim to solve a common problem. Are you sure the Team has strongly said they don't want us to chime in on the algorithm and voting functionality? I don't recall that. All I recall is them saying they won't reveal how it functions until after Beta.
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Vico Biscotti ·
Yes and no, @Antimetica . I'm with @Malkazoid in thinking that the discussion starts with low-quality content or, at least, quick visual content prevailing. A possible solution is considering the different types of posts as... different. While I agree that the two sides of the solution can have independent paths, the coin is the same. By treating a single photo as a 10 min essay is just unfair. It's obvious that media content - especially the fast-to-produce content - will win hands down.
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Malkazoid ·
@Vico Biscotti - I agree. There could be some interesting ways with which to determine the reward differentiation. One approach could be to start from the desired ratio of short form image-centric content to long form content, and compare how that differs from the current ratio we are seeing. Once that gap is quantified, it can inform the multipliers to apply to the rewards in order for the gap to disappear. Doing this becomes easy once the display separation is implemented. Another way is...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Garden Gnome Publications ·
I don't favor a strictly read-time approach because people read at different speeds. You could take a read-time moving average and apply it, perhaps, but I think read times can easily be gamed just as well as the current system. I like the image-centric/text-base ratio approach, but I'll need more time to think about its implementation. Another kink in the hose is musical content that also requires time to listen to, but it's usually defined by audio recording itself so that's easy to...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Malkazoid ·
One factor that can reduce gaming of the system is if people vote on an attribute representing this. I called it Effort in my first comments here, but there is probably a better name for it. A simple low, medium, and high delineation of this attribute would allow some crowd-sourced influence on how articles are valued. Moderators could also play a role in this, applying their vote for this attribute when they review the content, and having their vote weigh fairly heavily. Each niche might...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Christina Gleason ·
I already wanted some sort of "effort" metric added, but never so much as I do now that you've suggested branding it as Nerve!
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Nuno Moreiras ·
Careful with the read-time approach, depending on the way this is implemented, some people may just leave the post on and go for a coffee in Starbucks to throw off the metrics. Now that I am putting the Rate Me niche to work and thus own one of the easy&fast niches and have the moral high-ground to judge from both sides of the issue, allow me to reiterate that: I don't think both types of content should be rewarded equally . It's unfair. I'd much rather lose on Niche Owner and Creator...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Garden Gnome Publications ·
I like the Nerve idea too. And @Nuno Moreiras hit upon why exactly I don't favor the read-time approach alone. It's easy just to leave a post up for a while, go and get a coffee, then come back to my desk. There can be a point at which "too much time" is a negative, but it's still easy to game. A scroll time is less easy because the reader has to "pretend" they're reading. If you're going to do that, you might as well read. Still, it's less than perfect. I give this thread a 9 out of 10...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Malkazoid ·
See - I had read the read time thing a different way. I thought it would be at least partially crowd sourced, starting with the evaluation of the author, and then perhaps the moderators who approve it to the niches it posts to... This would be more reliable data than monitoring the behaviour of 'readers'.
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Christina Gleason ·
I think read time is calculated on other sites by assuming an average word per minute reading speed and applying that to the word count. If this were used in combination with the content-type filtering for posts marked as text, it would give a decent indication of actual read time.
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Garden Gnome Publications ·
Ah! Yeah, I was thinking about something more automated. That could be a viable way to handle it, @Malkazoid . At least, to start. Then if further tweaks are necessary ....
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Vico Biscotti ·
@Nuno Moreiras and @Garden Gnome Publications , by speaking of reading time, I don't mean a naive implementation, of course. On Medium, it's the most important metric and it works well in balancing short/long form. But, of course, just keeping the page open is not enough and it requires stronger prevention of abuses. Also, it's not a metric intended to work with precision on a single reader but it works on the average. Possible variances are the same for all authors, so it's quite fair even...
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Malkazoid ·
Ok - so what's the deal now that this has been made a conversation? Do the results of the discussion need to be resubmitted as a suggestion?
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Christina Gleason ·
@Malkazoid Yes, I think that's the way it "works" here. I already had David pull my suggestion out about content type filters, but there are a few other things discussed here that should be made into separate suggestions as well.
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Re: Low-Quality Content, "Spammy" Niches and Unintentional Voting Circles

Malkazoid ·
Thanks @Christina Gleason .
 
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