Asking for Narrative team help/advice. Translators Global niche. To be or not to be?

Service: Narrative

So, recently I bought Translators niche approved back in Sep 2018.

According to its definition it’s

“A niche for providing translation services of articles inside Narrative, in order to increase diffusion of the best articles in this platform and provide work to translators.”

-> inside Narrative

What about the outside of Narrative?

I asked a question here

https://community.narrative.or...-translation-service

“Translators niche. Does Narrative need more for translation service?”

It became clear that broadening the scope (inside Narrative + outside of Narrative) of Translators niche would change its meaning.

 

Thus, I suggested Translators Global niche 2 days ago.

That was a mistake, because I didn’t have a clear picture of that niche, its purposes…

What I knew is that this niche should be something what we already have on Steemit.

I’m thankful for those people who raised quite a lot of questions about this niche on

https://www.narrative.org/hq/a...al/52688828674087734

And indeed there’re a lot of questions/concerns about it.

This post here is to correct that initial mistake and initiate discussion.

It’s just a suggestion, and it’s totally OK to reject it. Feel free to criticize/improve/brainstorm it.

There’s translators community on Steemit (https://steemit.com/@davinci.witness). They make translations for open-source projects on Crowdin (and only there).

https://crowdin.com/

Then they publish on Steemit reviews with translation work done and get rewards from Steemit community (in fact, it’s mostly just 1 account (with big Steem Power) who rewards those posts with reviews with upvotes).

So, 1 month ago I joined Narrative. And it seemed cool to me to try to initiate on Narrative something like that. I wanted to just take that idea, improve it, expand it (so that Translators Global wouldn’t be only about open-source projects listed on Crowdin, but for materials on any topic published outside of Narrative (but only those which have an appropriate license (which allows to translate those materials))) and adapt it for Narrative.

I see 2 ways for Translators Global niche to function.

Note that I just copied (almost) its definition from Translators niche (it seemed logical to me to do that 2 days ago) changing “inside” to “outside”

“A niche for providing translation services for clients outside of Narrative on any topic and work for translators”

https://www.narrative.org/hq/a...al/52688828674087734

But I agree with some users on Niche Approval section that the definition could be improved (that could be possible to do once we get here responses from Narrators/team to know if that niche could even exist). As for the name, I can’t suggest a better name which could help to clearly distinguish this niche from Translators niche.

 

Case 1.

I can clearly see a niche called Contest on Narrative

https://www.narrative.org/n/contest

Its definition states that

“All the contest in Narrative platfrom where users can earn NRVE tokens. Users can create contest and giveaway free NRVE tokens to participants and winners of the contest.”

-> can earn NRVE tokens

To my understanding, by approving that niche Narrators introduced one day a new use case for NRVE.

They began to set it as the prize for the contests.

Seems like we’re allowed to do that (setting NRVE as the prize and transfer it to other users/winners).

Are we allowed to do that?

If yes, then that same contest approach could be applied to translation services.

But in this case the contest is for translators. Just like we can see on “photoshopbattles” niche something like “highQualityWinner of PhotoShop Battle 6.16.2019. Only 3 Entries for 20 NRVE” post, anyone on Narrative community could make a post with request to translate something (which has an appropriate license to translate it) for them (specifying details like what they want to be translated, the target language, the number of translators needed…) and set a prize in NRVE for translators. If some Narrators would also like to see that something translated, they could even join initial requester and add some additional NRVE amount to the initial prize.

Then translators would leave messages in the comments section of that post with request sharing the links to their portfolios, languages they speak etc.

Also requester could avoid setting the prize, but rather allow translators to specify the price (just like we have bidding for niches), so that requester could choose translators based on the price specified as well. It’s up to requester/s to choose translator (or even several translators if the original work is big).

Examples.

1.Narrators could ask to translate some books published on https://openstax.org/

Its license states that “Under this license the author gives others the freedom to copy, distribute, and display the work, and to make derivative works, as long as they give the original author credit.”

https://openstax.org/license

To my knowledge, translations are considered as derivative works.

2.Narrators could ask to translate some books/chapters published on https://www.intechopen.com/

It states that

“All works licensed under CC BY-BC-SA 3.0 can be freely translated and used for non commercial purposes. works licensed under CC BY 3.0 license can be freely translated and used even for commercial purposes.”

https://www.intechopen.com/page/translation-policy

Also think about the Wiki / Everipedia / PLOS ONE (Public Library of Science) https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ to get an idea of what could be translated.

I think you could suggest more examples.

 

Once translation is ready, translator/s would publish a post on Narrative with review of translation work done and leave the link to it in the comments section of the initial post of the requester.

Requester would leave his/her response if he/she is satisfied with the quality of translation.

Also the quality could be evaluated by the moderators of the Translators Global niche.

Translators will be rewarded with the upvotes on their posts with reviews (which could come as from requester, as from other Narrators who appreciate translator’s work) and NRVE set initially by requester/s as the prize. This same thing happens with other contests (users posts their entries for the contest (which get upvotes) and have a chance to win the prize (NRVE sent by the organizer)). But in this case the contests for translators are run by the community itself in the form of posts with requests.

Now I have a question.

Could those translations also be published on Narrative once Narrative supports other languages than English (if the license of the original work allows to do that)? I mean, would that (publishing those translations) on Narrative somehow violates AUP / TOS?

If it’s OK, that could additionally reward translators after a while with the upvotes received from the corresponding foreign community (if they find translator’s work valuable).

It seems to me that all described above (connecting requester/s with translators) could be accomplished solely with Discord, except for rewards coming to translators in the form of upvotes for their posts with reviews and translations published on Narrative (once it supports other languages and if Narrative even allows that – publishing translations of materials published outside of Narrative).

Also, Translators Global niche owner/moderators could search for interesting/promising for Narrative community original works/projects on the Web, make requests in the form of posts and ask Narrative community if they are interested in that work/book/journals to be translated into their native languages to find some sponsors who could help to set giveaways (NRVE) and help that work/book/web-tech docs to be translated (this should not necessary happen on Narrative, but could happen on Discord).

In the Case 1 it’s up to Narrative community/Translators Global niche owner/moderators to insure transparency (translators get the prizes and requester/s get translations, and no one gets cheated).

This is the end of Case 1.

I think Case 1 would be enough for this niche to be approved or rejected.

Again, think of this niche as a place to run contests for translators (just like those contests we can already see on Narrative). But in this case the contest (the post with request to translate something) could be initiated by anyone on Narrative (not just by appropriate niche owners).

And again, feel free to criticize, improve the idea with some reasonable arguments.

 

Now, Translators Global niche could also

a) accept/publish post on how to become a translator (where to find the job, how to improve productivity…).

We already have Translation Studies niche on Narrative (https://www.narrative.org/n/translation-studies)

“The study and analysis of the theory, description and application of translation and interpreting.”

As far as I understand, it deals with how to make translations (I guess it wouldn’t conflict with Translators Global in this case).

b) inform translators about the job available on different places of the Web (again, this should not necessary happen on Narrative, but could happen on Discord). Then translators would just go to Upwork, Crowdin etc. and all that would have nothing to do with Narrative anymore.

 

But… there’s also

Case 2.

In Case 1 those contests for translators happen on Narrative platform and they happen between Narrators.

Case 2 is about using NRVE as the payment option for translators for translations done outside of Narrative for non-Narrators (might sound crazy).

Communication/collaboration between translators/clients could/would happen on the platforms like translateme.market (Freelancer Market Place) developed by TranslateMe (http://translateme.network/)) (and it’s the only platform (which is in testing mode currently) I know where translators will be paid with crypto (ok, we also have translators community on Steemit)).

 

////////

The questions here for the team (sorry that it goes at the end, I needed to provide the context in the first place) are

Case 1.

Do you see anything suspicious in the Case 1?

Could we run those contests for translators on Narrative (where translators get rewards in the form of NRVE just like for other contests on Narrative)?

 

Case 2.

Would Narrative even need this use case for NRVE – using it as the payment option for the clients (non-Narrators) to pay Narrative translators community?

We need to know for sure, if Narrative team could even consider this new use case for NRVE as OK (and thanks to those people on Niche Approval section who pointed that out).

I suppose that the primary goal of NRVE is to reward those who are active on Narrative platform (is that correct?).

So, probably NRVE paid for translators for the work done outside of Narrative for the clients – non-Narrators (probably they could become Narrators tho’! (in this case we could go back to the Case 1)) - is not a good idea / doesn’t just correspond to the goals of Narrative team / platform / community, or maybe somehow even violates AUP / TOS etc.

//////

 

That Freelancer Market Place allows clients to list their projects and allows translators to bid for the job. To my knowledge, NRVE could be used there as the payment option. That platform isn’t ready yet (in testing mode).

So, if using NRVE as the payment option is OK for Narrative in the Case 2, Translators Global niche moderators/owner would/could try to find the clients for Narrative translators community. Those translators would accept only NRVE in this case in order to increase its demand/value (clients would need to buy NRVE in order to be able to pay Narrative translators community).

 

The key difference between Case 1 and Case 2.

Case 1.

Contests happen inside Narrative world between Narrators.

Transparency is provided by Translators Global niche owner/moderators / Narrative community.

Translators can be rewarded as with upvotes for their posts with reviews, as with the prizes set by requester/s.

 

Case 2.

Contests happen for Narrative translators community but outside of Narrative world, on Freelancer Market Place (or any other similar platform).

Transparency is provided by Freelancer Market Place platform (or similar platform).

In Case 2 clients could allow or prohibit to publish posts with reviews of translation work done on Narrative.

 

(Btw, pay attention to TranslateMe (which is combining blockchain (NEO) with translation industry). Possibly it could help Narrative with localization of Narrative website interface, its content and even provide it an API (once it’s ready) to get messages left in the comments section on Narrative translated automatically into different languages (like it’s going to be done for Conjure -  https://conjure.network/ (TranslateMe will help with building a multilingual platform for a global userbase)). TranslateMe will reduce the costs in this case compared with other solutions. Also if Narrative community has any troubles with communication on Telegram, TranslateMe offers Telegram chat app which automatically translates messages there).

Original Post

Activity Stream

Hi @alex_bio Thanks for bringing up the contests. Translations for in house posts as a way to keep nrve circulating on the platform compares nicely. The best translation winning helps boost quality. Other entries, including the competitors, have a chance to earn rewards, and the opportunity to improve on translation skills. the owner of the work has full view of what's going on with their post and to communicate too.

Once people can post in their first language, there's still opportunity for those wishing for translations so they can post in niches other than ones in their first language. 

So this would be Translation - Inside Narrative. 

“A niche for providing translation services of articles inside Narrative, in order to increase diffusion of the best articles in this platform and provide work to translators.”

An edit to add "via contests" just to be clear. I don't think this changes the scope, since it still provides the service and the work per the original description IMO, anyway. Run as a contest is the same as other contests run, so doesn't present conflicts.

I wonder if Translation global might work as the place for successful Narrative translators to post their reviews and examples - to earn rewards - and  to attract new members interested in the inner translation contest, both  translation competitors and creators wanting posts translated  - this would mess with the current description, tho.

Posts to discuss how to in the translation business could also go here, if it doesn't conflict with the existing translation discussion niche.

Not sure what to think about TranslateMe 

 

@MOLLY O

sorry for tagging.
Seems like I haven't got any responses from the team about my questions.
I suppose that I asked too many questions or just didn't express myself clearly.
1 month later I see that all I need to know is

1.
Would it be OK to use NRVE as a payment option for the job done
by Narrative translators community on platforms like
https://translateme.market/
This platform allows translators and clients to collaborate directly, ensures fairness and allows to pay translators with crypto.

2.
Would it be OK if narrators run contests (asking to translate something (their posts on Narrative or something outside of Narrative (as long as that something has an appropriate license which allows that material to be translated)))
 for translators, set prizes in NRVE and send them to other narrators
just like it already happens with some contest on Narrative?


I saw that you've already answered a similar question for Narrative Gigs niche
--> "As long as transactions are off the platform, this seems like it could work
as people are doing this now in various places (e.g. contests). "
[source]
https://community.narrative.or...11#17645279188722111


But I'd like to know for sure 100% before presenting my 2 niches for translations:

Translators
https://www.narrative.org/n/translators

Translators Global
https://www.narrative.org/n/translators-global

thanks in advance

@alex_bio.  Lots of information to absorb here and maybe future opportunity as well.  

I see this is a similar to contents - which are paying NRVE.  

The challenge I see is that all posts must be in English right now.  Let me think about this bit more and get back to you.  

yes, there's a lot of information.


"The challenge I see is that all posts must be in English right now."

I'd like to mention that
Translators
(https://www.narrative.org/n/translators)
and
Translators Global
(https://www.narrative.org/n/translators-global)
niches
could serve right now (when posts must be in English only) solely to

1. publish posts with requests by those users who need/want something (their own posts or something published on the Web (with appropriate license (which allows to make translations))) to be translated;

Translators would compete for the job/prize in the comments section of those posts with requests by sharing their portfolios and links to translation projects done. And those who make requests would choose translator they need/want.

2. publish posts with reviews of translations done by translators;

Translators could be rewarded not just with prizes in NRVE, but also with upvotes (by the users who consider their works valuable) on those posts with reviews of translations done.
This is similar to what we already have with contests on Narrative.

All that would happen in English.

Once Narrative supports other languages, I suppose/hope those translations themselves could be published on Narrative as well.


//////

And I need to correct myself.
I said in my previous message here that...

"This platform allows translators and clients to collaborate directly, ensures fairness
 and allows to pay translators with crypto."

--> "ensures fairness"

Today I found out that that's not the case.

Organization behind translateme.market/ cannot take responsibility for ensuring fairness.

I see that people on Narrative transfer prizes in NRVE to winners and share transactions IDs in the comments section of posts.
I haven't found yet any complaints that winners don't get promised prizes.
I think users wouldn't want to risk their reputation and wouldn't try to cheat someone.
I believe/hope Narrative community itself will be able/could ensure fairness.

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