AUP Violations and Platform Comments

Product: Narrative

I want to take some time this morning to review a couple things with the community.  We are early in the Beta and there is always room for improvement but we want to make decisions based on what is best for future features we are building while balancing growth.  

AUP Violations:  There were tons of posts reported by a few community members for AUP violations that occurred over the past 24 hours and continue today. No member of the Tribunal believes these music related posts are AUP violations. A couple reasons - these posts are not generated by bots and they are also not spam. The musicians post comments, participate in the platform, and engage with other members.  Please stop reporting these posts as AUP violations.

In the future, unless something is very apparent, it may be best that you report a few to see if the Tribunal acts on them.  This allows all of us to focus on more constructive things.

Narrative Platform Posts and Comments: While passion is good - these long diatribe-like comments with negative tone do nothing to help the platform. Think about the new Narrative members coming to the site and this is what they see. It is incredibly off-putting to new users.  Posts about other Narrators only incite the passionate comments. 

We are all trying to build this together. Nothing is perfect and we have work ahead, but let's respect each other, be inviting and inclusive…both on Narrative and in this community.  

Original Post

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Thank you for the clarification.

We are indeed trying to do our bit to help the platform grow as it is in all of our best interests.

Obviously we use lots of different platforms to promote our music and try to get some rewards for it due to the pitiful payments the mainstream platforms offer and Narrative is a great addition to our arsenal.

I hope members will also take some time to listen to our creations as they peruse the platform and let us know what they think.

Now we can continue in a positive light.

Finally some sense into all these nonsensical Witch-Hunting with Mafia style gang downvoting... hundreds of independent artists, that are part of our community will finally be free to post their art without being harassed or pointed out like we have been today..... Long live freedom of expression and hallelujah...we are the way all those downvotes should be eliminated and the reputation back for those affected by this....just to be fair....and those Harrasers should apologise to say the least....and let the real moderators to do their more circle of friends gathering to downvote others based on their biased judgement....

Thanks @MOLLY O - this really needed clarification, and great that you provided it rapidly.

Just a note about optics and good community vibes: as you may already be aware, many community members are confused about how we are supposed to be a community and perform the duties of community governance, while not calling anything/anyone out specifically, without private messaging being available.

Without it, the only places people can speak about what is going on on the platform is on the platform itself, or on the Community Support site.

If we try to avoid doing it on the platform, we come here and the threads get shut down.  If we try to avoid doing it here, we do it on the platform, and that's clearly worse from an optics and community well-being perspective.

Some members created a Discord server, in part to try to alleviate this, but that's really less than ideal for a couple of reasons.  A) it will only involve those who join.  B) It takes people off Narrative, so it is a missed opportunity.  Messaging within the platform is a glue that keeps us engaged with it.  I still use FB twice as much as I normally would because my friends still use Messenger to contact me.

Until this is resolved, community members will feel like they have nowhere to speak freely about things going on on Narrative.  They want to have these conversations because, by and large, they want the system to be fair and to help the platform grow.  Stifling that is counterproductive.  It also sometimes looks like censorship which I'm sure is the last thing you want to be looking like you are doing.

We asked for private messaging right at the beginning of the Alpha a year ago.  You guys have messaging code from a previous project.  You chose not to integrate it for reasons all your own.

I completely agree the optics are bad when things like this flare up, but until something gives, community members are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

That said, going forwards, I think we should all follow your directive to report one or two instances of AUP and wait for a response from the Team.  Do understand that because doing so had no effect for weeks with the recent copyright infringement issues, some community members may have felt they needed to bang harder on the door this time.  I think we now understand that the Team was much busier than usual during that time, and that you now have more bandwidth to address these things... so I'm feeling optimistic about that.  (For the record, I only reported two or three AUP violations on this issue).

As @Malkazoid stated, we don't have a way to govern the community without using the platform. Community governance requires community communication. Posting on the platform is the only way we can communicate openly about community issues on-site without having our discussion summarily shut down by staff in the Support Community.

It seems I misinterpreted the scripting issue, but I will stand by what initially was intended to be a discussion about content quality, because even if the posts in this niche were not deemed AUP violations, the question of quality is still a valid discussion. I wish strikethrough was a text decoration option on the platform, because that is how I wish to edit my post while leaving the important context of the comments intact, so I'm going to make that a separate suggestion.

@MOLLY O I do hope that not all AUP reports in that niche were ignored. At least one user posted the same exact song with the same exact text accompanying it at least six times, and that was only the most egregious duplicate content (spam) instance. Look for the song "Thanks." You'll see that this is spam, by the definition in the AUP. Some form of duplicate content detection is needed on the back end of the site, because no one else would have noticed it.

There were also posts with email addresses included, which is prohibited PII according to the AUP. As this is a safety issue, I hope these reports were not ignored.

As a member of the community tasked with its governance, I've been trying to go through individual niches when I have the time to see if there are any problems that have gone unnoticed for a while. Yesterday, I chose the Independent music niche and found a lot more than I bargained for. I was wrong about one particular type of AUP violation, but that doesn't negate the very black and white violations I also reported. 

And before a staff member tells me it's not my job to go through niches and look for problems, we've been told time and again that Narrative staff is hands-off about the platform, and it is up to us as members to identify and handle problems in the community. That that's what downvoting is for. As individual members, some of us have our own system for doing this. Niche by niche is mine. As my system is unique in its ability to detect patterns of problems, I post about them when I find them. If we had private messaging, I wouldn't have to do so publicly.

David thats the best post so far today!  Thank you for stating  what should have been obvious. You didn't think you'd have to play "Recess Monitor"  today did ya? lol

@Trous posted:

David thats the best post so far today!  Thank you for stating  what should have been obvious. You didn't think you'd have to play "Recess Monitor"  today did ya? lol

Now now, inferring these folks are children isn't putting us back on the right track.  It is completely normal for issues to arise and for things to flare up sometimes.  That's humanity for you.

I’m one of those members who reported those posts for AUP violation earlier today, with the idea that they were not just generated by a script but also automatically posted by said script, which would be against the AUP since no bots are allowed (even though a single account could be shared between a person and a script/bot).

I’m sorry if it caused mischief, and thanks @MOLLY O for the clarification. These problems are both the challenge and charm of early community building!

@Christina Gleason no one disagrees that you think you are doing what is best for the platform, as the owner of three Niches we understand you have a fair amount invested, the problem here is your attitude. You act as if there are no consequences to your actions. Your actions got active members banned for technicalities. You single-handedly almost got a community of 600+ musicians to leave this platform, which they would have done if Narrative staff wouldn't have gotten in on this. Who knows how many of these musicians, picking up the lead of active members, will join Narrative on the next few months, not for music, but other type of content.

You picked a fight with Independent Music and when someone questioned the logic behind it, you got antagonized and your first step was to call the lynching mob with the torches and pitch forks and came to burn the castle down, forgetting it is also your castle. Pretty much a destructive ego trip, for yourself and the community.

Don't get me wrong, people with your tremendous willpower and who sacrifice their time for the rest of the community reporting AUP violations are essential to to the welfare and future of Narrative. But if you are downvoting a "bazillion posts" maybe you should take a couple of steps backs, because that means that either the platform is gone to hell already or you standards are too high.

Regarding everything else, thank you for your efforts for Narrative, for I also have invested in this platform and I wish to see it thrive.

(P.S.: Thank you for you suggestion @Colleen Ryer on Christina's post. We have.)

And before a staff member tells me it's not my job to go through niches and look for problems, we've been told time and again that Narrative staff is hands-off about the platform, and it is up to us as members to identify and handle problems in the community. That that's what downvoting is for

^^^ I Agree with this so much. If there are problems in the platform that is supposed to be community governed and then we get scolded for it. Why would we want to continue to contribute or deal with a platform that is continuing to allow nonsense that is very clear to many? Great point I stand by @Christina Gleason on this one. One mistake does not mean the vocal way she went about it is wrong especially when the only way we have to go about this is through public comments and post. Beyond that what other tools do you suggest we use besides a private ticket which again the devs have already made clear hands-off as the above statement says. When a community is to govern itself and the only tools given are the public post, public comments and down votes what do you expect? save what has been presented.

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