Feeds too much alike ...

Service: Narrative

If this is possible, what is now the featured feed might be made up of recent posts that have yet to be rated, with a set time for exposure on the feed before they  scroll off the page.

If a post is voted for, but still isn't rated quality, by the time it hits the bottom of the page, it gets shifted to trending.

If any post hits quality, it immediately shifts to quality.

So quality posts only appear in the quality, and discovery.

Edit: the automated way, the posts would only be sorted as "not voted for yet" so would show in the order they're posted. As posts are voted for they disappear from the feed - so when looking at this feed, they're either not so hot, or no one has seen them yet. Everyone who looks this feed curates. Counts as human I think  It's more of a way to keep unseen posts in circulation longer.

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Votes (3)
FM MalkazoidGosia Rokicka

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@Colleen Ryer - how would the algorithm choose which posts to feature, if the posts have not yet been voted for?

I think some of your ideas here would work well with the suggestion to make the Featured tab a tab curated by humans (niche owner and niche moderators).  That would solve the problem of how those Featured posts get chosen.

I know you've seen and voted on this other suggestion, but just linking to it for anyone else who drops in:

https://community.narrative.or...hm-and-user-curation

I agree with you that the tabs are too similar.

I actually only use the Recent tab.  And I've heard other Narrators say the same thing.  This is a sign we're failing with the current tab structure: the tabs just aren't offering a coherent functionality that people are being convinced by.  It may also be frustration that they're not really surfacing quality consistently enough.  Difficult to unpack...

I'm going to ask the community about this now, and will post back here with a link to the post so the results can be absorbed by the Team.  Not as good as a poll, but lacking that feature, this will do!

Malkazoid posted:

@Colleen Ryer - how would the algorithm choose which posts to feature, if the posts have not yet been voted for?

I think some of your ideas here would work well with the suggestion to make the Featured tab a tab curated by humans (niche owner and niche moderators).  That would solve the problem of how those Featured posts get chosen.

I know you've seen and voted on this other suggestion, but just linking to it for anyone else who drops in:

https://community.narrative.or...hm-and-user-curation

I agree with you that the tabs are too similar.

I actually only use the Recent tab.  And I've heard other Narrators say the same thing.  This is a sign we're failing with the current tab structure: the tabs just aren't offering a coherent functionality that people are being convinced by.  It may also be frustration that they're not really surfacing quality consistently enough.  Difficult to unpack...

I'm going to ask the community about this now, and will post back here with a link to the post so the results can be absorbed by the Team.  Not as good as a poll, but lacking that feature, this will do!

Hi @malkazoid

The feature feed would sometimes look like the recent feed - but this would change fairly frequently.

How does an algorithm select anything Program is written to keeps posts that have no votes from scrolling off for a set time. A negative selection - posts with no vote = stay for x minutes.

I always use the recent tab in discovery, rather than my home feed. I miss way too much stuff if I don't. This might not be critical later on, but with so many new users and niches, just sticking to my home feed is like living in isolation or something.

I agree it's hard to unpack - 

I'm beginning to think that @Nrve (@writer) was on to something when he suggested focusing on niches instead of followers - trouble is I'm not exactly sure what he was on to yet. Still pondering. Will keep an eye out for the post - see what more people have to say ...

 

@Malkazoid @Colleen Ryer

I only sort my Recent as well. Occasionally, I'll see a Featured post in the right sidebar that gets my attention, but sorting by Featured sucks, and I wish we could choose default sort method on our profiles. I would much rather people saw my posts sorted by Recent rather than Featured.

Featured doesn't change often, and even when it does, site is not yet big enough to ensure Featured posts are actually that worthy to me.

I go by Recent to make sure I catch all posts and pick what I want. This won't be feasible once site grows larger. While I hate saying it, there perhaps need to be a Smart Feed which is personal to my preferences based on things I Follow and Vote for, but still ensuring I can find everything else if I keep scrolling.

Hmm... not sure. I'd want featured to refer to articles with good consolidated ratings. But the name "featured" is anyway misleading because nobody is featuring anything. It's an automated feed. I would use a different label for it (sort of "quality") and have a new tab for manually featured content.

Presently, I never use "featured" because of it's poor behavior. I use "recent" and "discovery", this last one to avoid getting stuck in my own feed.

Vico Biscotti posted:

Hmm... not sure. I'd want featured to refer to articles with good consolidated ratings. But the name "featured" is anyway misleading because nobody is featuring anything. It's an automated feed. I would use a different label for it (sort of "quality") and have a new tab for manually featured content.

Presently, I never use "featured" because of it's poor behavior. I use "recent" and "discovery", this last one to avoid getting stuck in my own feed.

Hi @Vico Biscotti for the generic feed, since we already have the quality and trending, the "featured" feed could be changed to something more useful - such as where new posts that haven't been voted for have a chance for some extra time on the front page. So it wouldn't really be a "featured" feed any more.

Then we have our personal feeds, and   @Bashar Abdullah 's idea of a "smart feed" is one approach ...

Sorry, @Colleen Ryer, I messed up with my answer.

I mean, the "quality" is already there. Not great deal for now, but I hope it will improve n future. That should be the automated quality picking.

Agree that "featured" has no sense to be there, currently. But, instead of another automated feed, I'd use that for manual featuring (maybe gathering possible "featured" of niches?).

@Vico Biscotti  that's OK. I messed up with my question  - the way it looks to me, the quality feed already serves the purpose of a feature feed. And the page layout is already done. The current feature feed could be used for something different. What I'd like to see is a chance for unvoted for posts to get a chance at longer visibility - increase their chances of getting votes - before they get buried,

Again , I should have been more careful with my wording in the suggestion in the first place.

I like the idea of the Featured tab being curated by the niche owner and/or moderators. On personal journals, by the profile holder. But I'll add another suggestion: Since we're displaying post payouts in the sidebar, why use one of the tabs for ordering posts by highest payout? That indicates quality to me, but it could also be the Discover tab. Whatever the algorithms are for these tabs, they should be distinctly different. I definitely would like to see posts ordered from highest payout to lowest.

Garden Gnome Publications posted:

I like the idea of the Featured tab being curated by the niche owner and/or moderators. On personal journals, by the profile holder. But I'll add another suggestion: Since we're displaying post payouts in the sidebar, why use one of the tabs for ordering posts by highest payout? That indicates quality to me, but it could also be the Discover tab. Whatever the algorithms are for these tabs, they should be distinctly different. I definitely would like to see posts ordered from highest payout to lowest.

Hi @Garden Gnome Publications I like these ideas, too.  And the idea that new posts that haven't been voted for yet could get a little more air-time. I was just using what's now called the feature feed as an example. But all the names could be changed. 

 @Colleen Ryer - This notion of giving visibility to posts that have not been upvoted yet would probably be best done by a human.  The algorithm has very little to go by that would be a fair metric of which post to show, above another, since there is no engagement data by definition, and going by author reputation isn't fair either.  Picking randomly is dangerous - many posts will have no interaction because they are simply not good, so featuring them would hurt the niche and the platform.  A human has infinitely more ability to look at a post and know it is something that is worth 'discovering'...

So I'm wondering if this function could get worked into the idea of the human curation tab.  Perhaps for each feature of an already interacted with post that the niche owner or moderator makes, they must also make a feature of an undiscovered post?  This parity would give a nice balance, perhaps.

Malkazoid posted:

 @Colleen Ryer - This notion of giving visibility to posts that have not been upvoted yet would probably be best done by a human.  The algorithm has very little to go by that would be a fair metric of which post to show, above another, since there is no engagement data by definition, and going by author reputation isn't fair either.  Picking randomly is dangerous - many posts will have no interaction because they are simply not good, so featuring them would hurt the niche and the platform.  A human has infinitely more ability to look at a post and know it is something that is worth 'discovering'...

So I'm wondering if this function could get worked into the idea of the human curation tab.  Perhaps for each feature of an already interacted with post that the niche owner or moderator makes, they must also make a feature of an undiscovered post?  This parity would give a nice balance, perhaps.

@Malkazoid the automated way, the posts would only be sorted as "not voted for yet" so would show in the order they're posted. As posts are voted for they disappear from the feed - so when looking at this feed, they're either not so hot, or no one has seen them yet. Everyone who looks this feed curates. Counts as human I think  It's more of a way to keep unseen posts in circulation longer rather than feature.

The human curation tab could work along with it, but owners/moderators can only curate so many posts - and they would feature posts, maybe even from the "slow" feed. 

Colleen Ryer posted:
Malkazoid posted:

 @Colleen Ryer - This notion of giving visibility to posts that have not been upvoted yet would probably be best done by a human.  The algorithm has very little to go by that would be a fair metric of which post to show, above another, since there is no engagement data by definition, and going by author reputation isn't fair either.  Picking randomly is dangerous - many posts will have no interaction because they are simply not good, so featuring them would hurt the niche and the platform.  A human has infinitely more ability to look at a post and know it is something that is worth 'discovering'...

So I'm wondering if this function could get worked into the idea of the human curation tab.  Perhaps for each feature of an already interacted with post that the niche owner or moderator makes, they must also make a feature of an undiscovered post?  This parity would give a nice balance, perhaps.

@Malkazoid the automated way, the posts would only be sorted as "not voted for yet" so would show in the order they're posted. As posts are voted for they disappear from the feed - so when looking at this feed, they're either not so hot, or no one has seen them yet. Everyone who looks this feed curates. Counts as human I think  It's more of a way to keep unseen posts in circulation longer rather than feature.

The human curation tab could work along with it, but owners/moderators can only curate so many posts - and they would feature posts, maybe even from the "slow" feed. 

I think I only just completely understood what you had in mind upon reading this - it sounds great!  I think I'd check out that feed every time I connect to Narrative.  Maybe it is the treasure hunter in me...

In fact maybe this is worth its own suggestion?  So it really surfaces for the team?  They might not know to keep track of it from deep within this thread...

Malkazoid posted:
Colleen Ryer posted:
Malkazoid posted:

 @Colleen Ryer - This notion of giving visibility to posts that have not been upvoted yet would probably be best done by a human.  The algorithm has very little to go by that would be a fair metric of which post to show, above another, since there is no engagement data by definition, and going by author reputation isn't fair either.  Picking randomly is dangerous - many posts will have no interaction because they are simply not good, so featuring them would hurt the niche and the platform.  A human has infinitely more ability to look at a post and know it is something that is worth 'discovering'...

So I'm wondering if this function could get worked into the idea of the human curation tab.  Perhaps for each feature of an already interacted with post that the niche owner or moderator makes, they must also make a feature of an undiscovered post?  This parity would give a nice balance, perhaps.

@Malkazoid the automated way, the posts would only be sorted as "not voted for yet" so would show in the order they're posted. As posts are voted for they disappear from the feed - so when looking at this feed, they're either not so hot, or no one has seen them yet. Everyone who looks this feed curates. Counts as human I think  It's more of a way to keep unseen posts in circulation longer rather than feature.

The human curation tab could work along with it, but owners/moderators can only curate so many posts - and they would feature posts, maybe even from the "slow" feed. 

I think I only just completely understood what you had in mind upon reading this - it sounds great!  I think I'd check out that feed every time I connect to Narrative.  Maybe it is the treasure hunter in me...

In fact maybe this is worth its own suggestion?  So it really surfaces for the team?  They might not know to keep track of it from deep within this thread...

Sigh - that's the thing with suggestions sometimes - they need to get hammered out in a discussion to hit the target. maybe better to edit this one so the comments don't get lost ? There 's other good ideas here too.

I've noticed my posts display on the recent tab, but only in the discover tab and not my home tab. Is this a problem with the way I publish my posts or is the only way to find my recent posts through the discover tab?

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