Problematic post deletion - potential solution

Service: Narrative

Perhaps posts could be "archived" instead of "deleted" - a sort of Post Purgatory for things people want to delete but are still visible to @Narrative Network Team. This would prevent members from posting problematic content (both posts AND comments) and deleting it to avoid negative consequences.

I am not a programmer, so I can only explain it in the terms of what things would look like to moderators and admin.

When a member hits "delete post" or "delete comment," it does not instantly erase the data. Instead, the post and comment are removed from public view for a period of, say, 30 days, like how Gmail treats messages marked as Spam. This allows moderators to keep track of bad actors AND retains evidence of bad behavior for review by the Tribunal and, if necessary, to Narrative staff, once the terms are no longer synonymous. 

This is how it works on reddit, although deleted comments still appear in comment threads if all of the child comments have not also been deleted. Since we don't have comment threading (yet?) on Narrative, this is a non-issue at this point.

BUT moderators of any given subreddit can still see deleted posts and deleted comments, so they can identify any individual bad actors who need to be more closely monitored. Right now, Narrative members can post things that are against the TOS/AUP and then delete them so that they cannot be voted down or reported. 

If we did have proper comment notification and access to a list of comments we have made on our profiles, the participants in a given comment discussion could continue to have access to the discussion they were having on a deleted post, at least for 30 days or whatever. This would allow members to take their comments and turn them into new posts or support issues.

I will try to grab a screenshot of what removed comments look like to me as a moderator on a popular subreddit, but I cannot do that at this time.

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Just to clarify one point, Narrative staff should never have a role in any content reviews (once the initial Tribunal elections are held), unless of course a staff member is actually elected to the Tribunal (which would be allowed).  Just to want to make it clear that ideally Narrative staff in general will have no role in content management.

The idea itself has merit, I think, and certainly worth more consideration here, though I'd also like to preserve the ability for a person to delete their content outright (instantly) because ultimately Narrative should be providing you autonomy over your content. 

This policy, in essence, assumes bad intentions. But sometimes you post things you regret that have nothing to do with AUP violations or offending anyone.  Perhaps this not-so-instant deletion depends on the person's reputation. If you are high reputation, for instance, maybe your deletions are always instant (assume the best) or (maybe even better) perhaps it is only low rep members that are subject to this policy.

I may be misunderstanding @Christina Gleason@Ted - but I think her suggestion includes immediate removal of the content from public view... so users who posted something they regret would be able to immediately find relief.  What is great, I think, about this proposal is that people who commented on the post would still have access to their comments. 

From a legal perspective, I think quite a few jurisdictions might actually impose the requirement that online public messages be kept in some form for a minimum amount of time?  They could become relevant to criminal investigations.  Even emails, which are private communications, are subject to retention laws...

That isn't to say people don't have autonomy over their content...  Rather, when a public statement has been made, it can be retracted but there is no onus on it being completely erased from all records everywhere.  When we make public statements, we inherently agree to the paradigm that we are putting out something that might remain somewhere.  If the only place it remains is on Narrative's servers to satisfy the requirements of various authorities, that's already awesome.

Malkazoid posted:

I may be misunderstanding @Christina Gleason@Ted - but I think her suggestion includes immediate removal of the content from public view... so users who posted something they regret would be able to immediately find relief.  What is great, I think, about this proposal is that people who commented on the post would still have active to their comments. 

You understood what I said correctly.

I have personally, in fact, deleted a post I'd published and had comments on that I later deleted because I became concerned that the anonymous friend whose situation I had written about might have his legal options compromised if someone close to the issue decided to weaponize the post against him. This friend HAD asked me to write the post, but there were just too many nuances that couldn't be properly expressed in an editorial format.

I manually archived the post on my hard drive so I can eventually write a more generic discussion about discrimination against a certain unprotected class of people, but I failed to copy/paste the comments in order to incorporate the issues they raised in the yet-unwritten new version of the piece.

I understand @Ted concerns about ownership of content. But I also think the suggestion from @Christina Gleason may be a good compromise. Another option is what I suggested here: https://community.narrative.or...ttachments-to-appeal. In the case of official issues, I think it's acceptable that the content remains public as evidence (until the account is there, of course), if the TOS is clear on that.

cc: @Malkazoid@Garden Gnome Publications

Here's a quandary. If we all have ownership of our content, that includes comments on a post created by another. If that other deletes their post, where do the comments go? If I own the comment content, then no one else should have the right to delete the entire thread of comments along with their post even if they own the post content.

Garden Gnome Publications posted:

Here's a quandary. If we all have ownership of our content, that includes comments on a post created by another. If that other deletes their post, where do the comments go? If I own the comment content, then no one else should have the right to delete the entire thread of comments along with their post even if they own the post content.

Yes - @Garden Gnome Publications - that's exactly why this thread was started.  A post was deleted by the troll we're currently dealing with, and many community members had put a lot of time in providing a lot of good information relevant to his grievance.  Those comments got deleted along with his post.  That's why were here...

I think that on a community based on reputation primarily, content should be kept, at least if it was Reported. It can be deleted from frontend, but Tribunal community always can access it from backend. 

Not sure if this has legal implications even if it's stated in the terms though.

Thoughts?

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