What does Narrative consider "pornographic?"

Service: Narrative

Hello darlings,

As we approach the launch date, I am becoming increasingly aware of grey areas in the TOS. I own and have paid for two erotica niches. Because the very definition of erotica involves textual descriptions of explicit sexual acts, and because multiple erotica categories have been approved and have owners, I can only assume that it's only pornographic imagery that is disallowed.

As I am also the winning bidder of the currently-named "GirlsGoneBitcoin" which will be renamed and given a new description to separate it from its predecessor's unethical reputation, I do feel the need to clarify what is or is not considered pornographic.

The only thing I was able to locate in Narrative's official documentation says something to the effect of "a photograph of Michelangelo's David is acceptable, while a nude photograph of your friend David is not." This confuses me, because there had been a previous appeal to the Tribunal to reject GirlsGoneBitcoin, but the Tribunal unanimously voted for it to remain Approved. I need to know where the line is drawn in order to indicate it when I request an edit to the description. One would infer that the Tribunal's decision indicates that naked breasts are acceptable, and therefore not considered pornographic on this platform. (Though certainly all such posts should be marked 18+.)

Based on what I have described above, it seems safe to assume that written erotica and photographs of naked breasts are appropriate for this platform when properly marked as adult content. Is it photos of genitalia that are where the line for "acceptable adult content" and "pornography" is drawn? Or only graphical depictions of sexual acts? Where does a bare posterior fall on this line?

These are important questions relevant to my business interests, as I am trying to recruit "girls" who want to show off their breasts for NRVE tips and moderators who would like to earn 6% for looking at pictures of women's breasts to ensure that the women are not harassed in comments and that the same women are not linking to outside websites or otherwise implying they engage in prostitution.

Original Post

Activity Stream

The Narrative AUP is pretty clear on this:

"No pornographic images or video, as determined by the community."

Thus, it has to be an image or video to qualify... with the community determining where the line is exactly. Text-only erotica would not be considered pornographic by the current definition.

@Gaia Glee, this is such a difficult topic, and one that clearly needs to be defined better. Unfortunately given @Ted's comment probably wont get an answer until you start posting.

I have had a lot to say on this topic so it only seems fair that I be the first community member to jump in to respond to your thread.

Firstly, I have a lot of respect for you for purchasing the GirlsGoneBit niche and it was immediately apparent to me why you bought it. Thank you.

I think you are a good community leader, very fair, very active, and you have good perspectives, even though we are taking very different content routes on the platform.

Standards for nudity: As you may know, I was the very first person to bring up this topic when the niche Gone Wild  was suggested. It was hard to do then, barely easier now. The problem that arrises is that no one ever wants to determine what pornography actually is. I was against bringing nudity in, at all for this very reason. Floodgates get opened, that nobody ever wants to try and shut down if we loose control.

When your niche was approved it seemed to me, ok nudity is in, porn is out. But like you, I have been wondering where is the line. And I see the same  hypocrisy as you, with your comments about tribunal overturning girlsgonebit, and yet stating no pornography allowed.

I see that the community/or the narrative team has decided that nudity is not porn, and that it seems that perhaps only images of intercourse is porn? Of course if this is the case, it is not accurate because the definition is: porn is published (visual) material intended to sexually arouse.

Breast feeding mom -not intended to sexually arouse. And yet some people will get aroused by it. Some people are sexually aroused by a  naked foot, while a picture of vagina does nothing for them. So how do we possibly quantify visual titillation?

I don't know how to truly set standards for it. I will say that I am much more relaxed now that we have the +18 in place, and that it will not be in our content streams unless we choose it. But I do still worry that, the community that votes on this type of content, may not have the holistic view of the platform and community necessary, and that the 18+ section becomes a train wreck without many people even knowing....and may even end up compromising the platform with public scorn.

But to answer your question directly, as a community member, if we must go down this route, I would prefer more Playboy than Hustler -meaning no close up or completely isolated genitalia, or even breast shots that through cropping remove the person's head. Definitely no simulated sex shots, no shots that demoralize people. shots of nude people, that are tasteful, and natural, and are much less about titillation but more about celebrating the human form, is more palatable for this platform. IMO

Also and this is important: A post creator, if it is obviously not them in the picture, should be able to show consent of the model, to a narrative team member, if the community asks for them to do so. And models posting nude photos  certainly MUST  be 18+. 

Personally, I am very glad you asked the question Gaia. I am happy to have you active in this conversation, rather than silent. It is important that we communicate. 

 

Just wanted to say I really appreciate the spirit in the discussion here.  Times like these make me feel we have a terrific community.

My take in just a few words (or at least I'll try for just a few): like with hate speech, if we have it forbidden in the AUP, then we have a recourse.  Like with hate speech, pornography is not easy to define, and human judgement will have to come into play.  But that is the case in many more areas of life than we would perhaps like to admit to ourselves.  We are often at the mercy of other humans taking the time to carefully and honestly assess a situation, and sometimes they fail.

Lets hope those of us in positions to pass such judgement on Narrative do a good job more often than not, and when they don't, that someone remedies the situation (Tribunal), and/or that it helps somebody better replace them.

Thank you, dears, for chiming in on the subject, @Emily Barnett and @Malkazoid. Personally, visual porn does nothing for me, which is why I write erotica. My main concern in try to nail down, as it were, an agreed upon definition of pornography is to shape the description of what will be allowed in what will become Girls Gone Crypto. This is one niche of mine where I do not intend to play a large role in the moderation, but I do want to ensure that my contributors do not get penalized for breaking rules that have not been adequately defined. While I may contribute a photo or two, I primarily purchased the niche both for the financial investment and to provide quality control and ethical guidelines for both contributors and commenters.

Gaia Glee posted:

Thank you, dears, for chiming in on the subject, @Emily Barnett and @Malkazoid. Personally, visual porn does nothing for me, which is why I write erotica. My main concern in try to nail down, as it were, an agreed upon definition of pornography is to shape the description of what will be allowed in what will become Girls Gone Crypto. This is one niche of mine where I do not intend to play a large role in the moderation, but I do want to ensure that my contributors do not get penalized for breaking rules that have not been adequately defined. While I may contribute a photo or two, I primarily purchased the niche both for the financial investment and to provide quality control and ethical guidelines for both contributors and commenters.

That is a respectable request @Gaia Glee

Hopefully other community members besides myself, will weigh in with what they will or won't tolerate. I think it is only fair, for people to give you a straight up answer, so that you can work within the system and try to protect your reputation when and if you chose to submit content with photos, and to lay out acceptable guidelines for your moderators. 

I personally hate punching in the dark, and that is exactly where you are left regarding your content, until it gets voted on. Not good.

important edit to note. Sorry @Gaia Glee I thought you had purchased GoneWild when the alpha first launched....my mistake....the link to the discourse on nudity pertained to that niche, not your two erotica niches.

Just wanted to clarify that i made that edit.

Best of luck to your mods @gaia.glee ! They are certainly going to be active 😁

My 2 cents: pornography starts at penetration and personally, I don't think it should be banned from Narrative, just 'hidden' behind an age verification and a 'NSFW' toggle.

I agree with @Emily Barnett on this, but I'd like to point out that the Tribunal review process had nothing to do with whether or not that niche was considered pornography. It was really over the potential for financial abuse by someone who already has a proven history with it. I am also appreciative that you bought the niche with your current direction in mind.

I think, as niche owners, we have to think beyond Narrative TOS and consider the implications of where our individual franchises are headed. It is difficult to create a TOS that answers every question and defines every possible scenario adequately, and to do it in such a way that it makes everyone happy. It won't make everyone happy, no matter how good it is.

With regard to the question, if I were the owner of this niche, I would establish tougher guidelines than the Narrative TOS. With a content funnel geared toward any of the seven deadlies, you are guaranteed to get a fair amount of content aimed at pushing the boundaries. You need to show early on that those boundaries will not move and that they are reasonable, fair, and just. You can't compromise on that standard, and neither can your moderators. 

Garden Gnome Publications posted:

I agree with @Emily Barnett on this, but I'd like to point out that the Tribunal review process had nothing to do with whether or not that niche was considered pornography. It was really over the potential for financial abuse by someone who already has a proven history with it. I am also appreciative that you bought the niche with your current direction in mind.

I think, as niche owners, we have to think beyond Narrative TOS and consider the implications of where our individual franchises are headed. It is difficult to create a TOS that answers every question and defines every possible scenario adequately, and to do it in such a way that it makes everyone happy. It won't make everyone happy, no matter how good it is.

With regard to the question, if I were the owner of this niche, I would establish tougher guidelines than the Narrative TOS. With a content funnel geared toward any of the seven deadlies, you are guaranteed to get a fair amount of content aimed at pushing the boundaries. You need to show early on that those boundaries will not move and that they are reasonable, fair, and just. You can't compromise on that standard, and neither can your moderators. 

Oh, indeed, darling. It would help to know if it will be possible to add niche rules to the niche landing page, or if we can have a "sticky" post containing rules and guidelines. I feel like something of a madame when I say this, but while it's any woman's prerogative to share pictures of their bodies for others to appreciate, I don't want anyone hurting my girls for their decision to do so.

I intend to make it clear that this is a body-positive, sex-positive space, and that the language used therein should be of the "romance novel" type, not the "erotic novel" type. There is a place for cruder talk, but that belongs in one of my - or someone else's - erotica niches, not here.

Add Reply

×
×
×
×