Hi,

Is this a good idea?  I don't see another major social media platform offering a porn forum/ niche.

I realize the niche would be huge a traffic generator, but is this really the goal of Narrative to reflect the entire web one niche at at time?  

 

 

Regards

Whit

Original Post

I moved the topic to the Niche Discussions area.

There is a considerable discussion going on of the broader themes.  In the meantime, this is a good place to discuss the particular niche and why you think people should vote for or against it. 

There is also room for comments within the suggestion itself to explain your vote.

Michael Farris posted:

I moved the topic to the Niche Discussions area.

There is a considerable discussion going on of the broader themes.  In the meantime, this is a good place to discuss the particular niche and why you think people should vote for or against it. 

There is also room for comments within the suggestion itself to explain your vote.

Hi,

 

I am the fence.  NO issues with porn personally, but I feel others may have issue.  A review niche for porn sites will most likely contain links to the reviewed porn sites, these sites are a place where viruses breed.  My main concern is the security issues that porn links and porn traffic will cause.

 

 

 

I think this is a bad idea for these reasons:

  • Mainstream public adoption is part of the Narrative plan. Porn Niche will have an impact on that goal. 
  • Many advertisers now days have strict ethics policies that will not allow them to be associated with a platform that facilitates porn.
  • Narrative has not yet demonstrated how pornography would be implemented as part of the financial ecosystem.
  • If a niche owner and moderator posts a picture or video of someone, who has not signed off a model release for public distribution with the intention of profiting, Narrative has not yet demonstrated it's plan to have a legal contingency fund set aside to mitigate/insulate from lawsuits.
  • we have yet to determine community standards that make for an inclusive platform.
  • We have yet to determine how we will approach age limits.
  • I question whether the people whom are suggesting Porn Niches and even Nudity Niches such as Gone Wild, have done their own due diligence by consulting legal advice as to their personal liability should/when something goes wrong.

@Emily Barnett I think you make great points. 

I personally don't want adult content on this site because I think it degrades the quality of content.  The NSFW niche should be removed in my opinion. I wonder what your thoughts about this are?

From a business perspective. No advertiser will touch porn, or violence or anything the promotes hatred. It will MASSIVELY degrade the value of narrative.network. 

There shouldn't be a debate on this. 


@Corey Think about this from a business perspective. In this day and age most advertisers do not want to be associated with porn. The value of the network will at some stage rely on advertizing income. It's a no brainer. 

I have also started a tribunal appeal for NSFW and I hope other members of the community can chip in with their views on this too. 

This all boils down to a choice.

I don't agree with the arguments about advertisers - niches are discrete worlds that can easily be cordoned off from advertisers who do not wish their products associated with them.

But I do agree that porn may well not be what we should be aiming for, for Narrative.  Particularly at this time.

But it boils down to a choice, and there are two potential groups of decision makers.

The Narrative Team

First of all, I think it would be useful at this stage to know whether this choice is to be made solely by the community, or whether @Narrative Network Team are debating amongst themselves the possibility of a decision made at their level.  Personally I feel like it is implicitly being left up to the community, but it would really help for the team to say so explicitly because I think some of us might be hoping for an executive decision to either allow porn, or make a temporarily centralised decision to defer the ultimate decision about pornographic content until after Narrative has survived its initial growth spurts.  

The Community

If the decision is solely upon us as a community, then I think we must officially recognise that voting for niche validation is truly no longer just about policy adherence and uniqueness.  If the Team have no policy in place to address the big questions posed by pornographic niches, and if they are not duplicates, then we are being asked to make a judgement call based on how we want Narrative to be perceived as a network, and how we want at least the next year or so to unfold in terms of focus.

If the Narrative Team does not weigh in in time, or if they explicitly state this decision is to be made by the community, I will vote No on the porn niche.

This is purely a pragmatic decision - I feel the initial stages of Narrative will benefit from us all being able to focus our energies on other problems/issues. 

I also feel like establishing the network around other themes is beneficial. 

Pornography does not elevate the human condition in anyway, but more importantly, I don't see how Narrative can improve on the world of Pornography that already exists online.  That world is vast and doesn't need our help.  I don't see how a Narrative porn niche will have a distinctive Narrative touch that makes people think: wow, the porn is just better on Narrative.  Rather, I think all those who have become excited about Narrative being different, moderated, and more quality conscious, will have a tendency to be disappointed by the presence of pornography - particularly if it is there at launch.

I do not judge pornography as useless or implicitly negative, but I'm talking about priorities here - and porn should not be a priority during a phase where the network is teething and trying to define itself as a step above some of the other networks out there.

Anything with serious liabilities for the network should only be entertained once the network is strong enough to handle them.  This is the bottom line for me at this point in time.  I hope the @Narrative Network Team weigh in on this pragmatic aspect because I believe such considerations of protecting the welfare of the network as a whole fall squarely within their purview.  But if the decision is left to us, you now have the reasoning behind my No vote.

Very astute comments here.  @Malkazoid in particular voices the variety of issues in play.  It's not breaking any secrets to say the team is talking about the issues and will draft a default set of guidelines to get us started.  

Ultimately, the community at large will have a say in such matters and for now, I am telling people to vote as they want in the Alpha because that is the one place available for registering an opinion. 

I agree with much of what you are saying @Malkazoid with the exception of the privacy wall. If that is what the majority of the community determines it wants then I shall be supportive, however I don't think that all advertisers will find this an acceptable solution. I would like to see data research on this, to support what you are saying, I just am not aware of any sm platforms that operate with a privacy wall and sell mainstream ads as well. I suspect if a privacy wall was a good enough solution, then platforms such as Facebook and Youtube would have a most likely implemented a similar solution.

Personally I also think that Niches like Parenting, New mom, and other family orientated niches, may find it harder to find the types of advertisers that are linked with those types of  topics, if we are going down the Private Niche route.

I don't feel that we need to cater to advertisers, but at the same time I think we should not jump in to content that they are not willing to associate with. 

But all of this said. I just think it is way to early to make this decision for all the other reasons that I have mentioned.

Malkazoid posted:

I too would like to see data on advertisers and their responses to the presence of nudity in walled sections of otherwise public networks.

Not data...but i think the article linked below, very much addresses some of the issues I have been bringing up, regarding types of content, and the impact it has on advertisers. The written article is more specifically related, regarding how advertisers want to disassociate themselves from what is or could be considered negative to their brand (and certainly CNN calling them to investigate would be considered unfavorable). The article does not specifically speak to pornography (and nudity) because youtube does actually have a community policy that prohibits this type of content. But I think there is a lot of information here, including many quotes from brands that say the type of content on a platform  matters in deciding who they do business with. That may or may not be entirely truthful, but the biggest take away is that although advertisers may come back to youtube, it is because it has a billion users watching over 1 billion hours of video stream per hour. Narrative does not have any pull yet...at all...and there for I feel it is entirely too premature to introduce to the platform nudity...and in my opinion never will it be a good time for pornography, under the advertiser funding model that is set up. This article demonstrates how the associations can be connected even though stop-measures can be in place.

The video at the top of the page is also very good to watch. It talks about tech companies having to embrace editorial decisions, from a bit of a philosophical point of view. The article is  is 3 days old.

CNN Exclusive: Youtube ran ads on hundreds of Extremists channels.

I think when I first discovered  Narrative, a porn niche was the complete opposite of what sprung to mind. A broadsheet as opposed to a tabloid newspaper. A platform with less of a male bias than Steemit. We should not even entertain a porn niche as, for me, it erodes our unique selling point or at least changes the positioning of the platform. 

Gerbino posted:
Corey posted:

Bunny token is plastered all over youtube...half of the ads I see there now promote that token

Isn’t that probably just due to all the cookies you have relating to ICO’s/crypto?

it could be....i have seen a bunch of other ico ads as well. gotta stop watching videos!

Bargh Rich posted:

@Emily Barnett I think you make great points. 

I personally don't want adult content on this site because I think it degrades the quality of content.  The NSFW niche should be removed in my opinion. I wonder what your thoughts about this are?

From a business perspective. No advertiser will touch porn, or violence or anything the promotes hatred. It will MASSIVELY degrade the value of narrative.network. 

There shouldn't be a debate on this. 


I agree with you.

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