Redundant/invalid niches - report them here

Inspiration

https://alpha.narrative.org/n/inspiration

This niche is currently up for approval. Is has a title and description far superior to the already approved niche that makes it redundant...

INSPIRATIONAL CENTER

https://alpha.narrative.org/n/inspirational-center


The latter was approved by a narrow margin and has no bids on it. The former would be far more appealing to narrators, readers, AND advertisers. 

Is there anything that can be done in situations like this?

Christina Gleason posted:

Inspiration

https://alpha.narrative.org/n/inspiration

This niche is currently up for approval. Is has a title and description far superior to the already approved niche that makes it redundant...

INSPIRATIONAL CENTER

https://alpha.narrative.org/n/inspirational-center


The latter was approved by a narrow margin and has no bids on it. The former would be far more appealing to narrators, readers, AND advertisers. 

Is there anything that can be done in situations like this?

Oh wow.  You've really unearthed a tough one.

I always feel a pang of sorrow when a redundant niche pops up that presents much better than the original one, but this one is that, squared.

The name is simpler, the description is powerful in ways few niche descriptions have been to date... and we have to vote it down and keep the previous one that for now has a flawed, self-referential description?

And where is the justice, if the original niche proposer amends his description to use the phenomenal description of the newcomer?  The newcomer gets his idea taken from him and has nothing.  Sure, the network benefits, but I can't ignore the newcomer's perspective.  It just wouldn't be right.

I feel like this is a situation that we should seize as an opportunity to establish a policy for dealing with this.

One possibility would be for the Tribunal to have the power to determine that the new name and description are much better for the network, so the original niche owner can keep his niche, but he should adopt the better name and description... and to recompense the newcomer, a nice rep boost would be in order.  Personally, I think I would feel ok about that, putting myself in the newcomer's shoes.  As for the owner, if he feels imposed upon and wants to refuse and keep the old name and description, he should be able to do so, but he would take a small rep hit for ignoring what the Tribunal have suggested would be in the interest of the network as a whole.

The Team might not go for that solution because it may be too interventionist for their liking.  There is a strong prerogative to not be a middleman whenever it can be avoided, and overall, I agree with that ethos.

Also there is a chance that this approach is just too complicated.

My take tends to boil down to: what is better for Narrative.  What will make the network more successful, what will make everyone feel this is the most fair way of delivering a quality experience for Narrative's users.  If stepping in once and a while with a small carrot and a gentle stick is what it takes to make a poor niche awesome, and everyone feel fairly treated in the process... I personally think it may well be warranted.  But that's just from where I stand: I don't see all the moving parts as well as the Team can.

That's all I've got.  Do you have any thoughts Christina?  Thanks for presenting this really tough situation.  Perhaps the Team will come up with a great solution that we cannot see, but definitely beneficial to look at this among ourselves and let them be amused, bored or inspired by our musings.

Malkazoid posted:

My take tends to boil down to: what is better for Narrative.  What will make the network more successful, what will make everyone feel this is the most fair way of delivering a quality experience for Narrative's users.  If stepping in once and a while with a small carrot and a gentle stick is what it takes to make a poor niche awesome, and everyone feel fairly treated in the process... I personally think it may well be warranted.  But that's just from where I stand: I don't see all the moving parts as well as the Team can.

That's all I've got.  Do you have any thoughts Christina?  Thanks for presenting this really tough situation.  Perhaps the Team will come up with a great solution that we cannot see, but definitely beneficial to look at this among ourselves and let them be amused, bored or inspired by our musings.

In this particular case, INSPIRATIONAL CENTER doesn't yet HAVE an owner, as it's still up for auction with no bids. This would be the ideal time to un-approve the inferior niche without actually stepping on anyone's toes. (There are LOADS of terrible niche names and descriptions still up for auction now, many approved before I knew Narrative existed, when niches could be won for 450 NRVE. Because the names and descriptions are so bad, they may not show up with the automated "related niches" list.)

Having previous worked as a Quality Rater for Google (through a temp agency) I'm particularly sensitive to what provides the best user experience. Looking at INSPIRATIONAL CENTER as it is now, I'd never submit anything there because it just wouldn't perform well. The suggested Inspiration niche, though, seems like it would be more lucrative for all involved: Narrative, owner, mods, narrators, readers, AND advertisers.

But in the case where an old niche has an owner and a newcomer suggests something redundant but objectively better for niche performance, I like your suggestion about having the owner of the original niche edit the name and description, compensating the newcomer for reputation loss associated with being rejected for redundancy, and potentially giving the newcomer first refusal for an open moderator position in the respective niche.

Christina Gleason posted:

In this particular case, INSPIRATIONAL CENTER doesn't yet HAVE an owner, as it's still up for auction with no bids. This would be the ideal time to un-approve the inferior niche without actually stepping on anyone's toes. (There are LOADS of terrible niche names and descriptions still up for auction now, many approved before I knew Narrative existed, when niches could be won for 450 NRVE. Because the names and descriptions are so bad, they may not show up with the automated "related niches" list.)

Good point - I suppose all the newcomer was going to get out of his suggestion was a rep boost since it is only at the approval phase.

So if he still gets a rep boost for the Tribunal finding his suggested name and/or description to be an improvement over the original niche - all should be well in his world. 

 

@Christina Gleason - I guess we're not any closer to knowing how to vote with the Inspiration niche...

I can't bring my self to vote against it.  It is too good, even though it is redundant.

I wish there were a way to flag it as redundant BUT better than the earlier niche in name and/or description.  If there were such a flag, this could automatically bring the rejected niche to the attention of the Tribunal...

I stumbled on this one Crowdfounding, https://alpha.narrative.org/n/crowdfounding this niche is going through approval. It is in my understanding a misspelling of crowdfunding.

In this case crowdfunding hasn't been suggested yet. Can the suggester of the crowdfounding be asked to edit his suggestion entirely and pass it through tribunal or can someone suggest crowdfunding and thereby render the former redundant (?). 

 

 

Osita posted:

I stumbled on this one Crowdfounding, https://alpha.narrative.org/n/crowdfounding this niche is going through approval. It is in my understanding a misspelling of crowdfunding.

In this case crowdfunding hasn't been suggested yet. Can the suggester of the crowdfounding be asked to edit his suggestion entirely and pass it through tribunal or can someone suggest crowdfunding and thereby render the former redundant (?). 

I was wondering the same thing about what to do with that one.

@Christina Gleason - I've decided to downvote the Inspiration niche.  It is redundant after all, and we're supposed to downvote redundant niches until something changes with the guidelines and/or process.

I hope the @Narrative Network Team can find the bandwidth in the not-too-distant-future, to implement a procedure whereby these redundant but better niches can be folded into improving Narrative rather than just being shot down.

Osita posted:

I stumbled on this one Crowdfounding, https://alpha.narrative.org/n/crowdfounding this niche is going through approval. It is in my understanding a misspelling of crowdfunding.

In this case crowdfunding hasn't been suggested yet. Can the suggester of the crowdfounding be asked to edit his suggestion entirely and pass it through tribunal or can someone suggest crowdfunding and thereby render the former redundant (?). 

 

 

Hey @Osita - thanks for posting here.  Yes, that is a misspelling, and we are supposed to downvote such niches.

I think currently the only way forwards for a misspelled niche is for it to be rejected.  Someone, in fact anyone, can submit the correctly spelled niche.  

 

We already have "Digital Video: All about video production with digital cameras for digital publishing channels. Hardware, story telling, editing tips, publishing on facebook, youtube, instagram" so 'Videography: All the great content for videographers around the world. Get tips, information, inspiration, entertainment and resources from top creators and filmmakers!" is redundant.

Emily Barnett posted:

We already have "Digital Video: All about video production with digital cameras for digital publishing channels. Hardware, story telling, editing tips, publishing on facebook, youtube, instagram" so 'Videography: All the great content for videographers around the world. Get tips, information, inspiration, entertainment and resources from top creators and filmmakers!" is redundant.

Nice catch, I have to change my vote I think!

Here is an interesting one.  Not sure how to vote yet.

Video Game Critique

https://alpha.narrative.org/hq...al/26791059735535845

There is already a Video Game Reviews niche.  Although I understand the distinction between short reviews, and in depth ones, I don't understand how the distinction can be quantified in a way that does not cause confusion.

We have niches for shorter, and longer pieces of fiction, for instance - but there were clear definitions of how short a piece had to be, in order to belong in the short fiction niche (sorry, can't recall the exact niche name).

And we are also faced here with the possibility of this sort of doubling up of niches become abused.  If we allow this, we give a green light to every niche being copied, with the slight modification of adding "in depth", or "short".

In this particular instance, I'm also wary of the potential for confusion on the name level, since only the description of this niche makes clear that it intends to be in depth.  Though 'critique' can mean an extensive evaluation, it is also used to refer to comments and observations of any length.

As time goes by, I'm homing in on the number one criteria for voting being the potential for confusion.  This makes me feel like this should be voted down, but I'm uncertain.  Any thoughts?

 

The approved Niche "blackandwhite photography" seems like a duplicate of another approved Niche "BLACK-WHITE PHOTOGRAPHY". What seems strange is the more appropriately spelled Niche "Black and White Photography" was rejected. Was this based on their descriptions and timing?

"BLACK-WHITE PHOTOGRAPHY" was suggested first and its description seems geared toward creating B&W photos and techniques. "Black and White Photography" was next and I guess the description is about sharing and discussing other artists' B&W photography but it was strongly (71%) rejected. Then "blackandwhite photography" is narrowly approved (52%) with a similar (misspelled) description as the rejected "Black and White Photography".

Is this just a natural result of community voting? I like what @Malkazoid had to say about the quality of descriptions and would further apply it to the naming of Niches. I'm not a huge stickler for spelling and grammar but I don't think it benefits the community if Niche names and descriptions are both poorly worded. 

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