A important part of your experience on Narrative is your Reputation. Your have a Reputation Score that is based on all of the actions taken by you a bit like in The good place (On netflix!! love it). : ) remember Eleanor Shellstrop!

Anyway all content is rated based on your opinions, your reputation always influences Content Ratings.

And how your content is rated impacts your reputation. (Still with me ?)

This way your reputation reflects the actions you make, as well as how others perceive you. Your reputation is tracked over time, charted and easily seen by any user in the system.

The good news is you can improve your reputation over time and will be rewarded with Activity Points this postive cycle helps improve your stand in the overall community.

So all sinners can make it! just like Eleanor Shellstrop did After her death in The Good place! : )



With love harj x

Original Post
Emily Barnett posted:

I am curious to know, and have asked the question previously if and how our community reputation will be ported over to our Chaucer profiles, since the two are not connected.

Me too...

And while we're asking this again, I'd like to know whether the system will reflect the effort folks put into voting and commenting on niches as well?  It would be good to motivate everyone to take part in that.

Very likely not.  There will be an entirely new reputation engine in Narrative so porting over ranking from here isn't realistic and probably not fair to newbies coming into Narrative.

For example, once this first airdrop is done for Community participation we will simply reset everyone to zero to start over in phase 2.  That gives people who have joined recently a chance to join in on an equal footing.

BTW -- one very large difference between this Hoop.la ranking/ points system and Narrative is that Narrative reputation won't be an ever-growing  set of points.   And ranking won't be the point.  It will be the levels of your reputation.

I hate the following analogy but it is a good way to understand the difference.  Reputation is like a credit rating.  ( In the USA a 'credit score' is a near obsession for marketers and fintech seeking to wring the last penny out of customers).  Most places, the "credit rating"  just tells someone whether you are well employed and pay your bills on time.  Whether you can take on a loan or afford a large purchase.    Your score is established by time and behavior.  It can go up and it can go down.  You can repair it. Something serious like bankruptcy is a near-permanent hit. 

So, in the case of Chaucer, we have a crude version in place for buying niches.  If you don't pay on time, you can't bid for a while.  If you suggest niches and they are voted out, your right to suggest is suspended for a while.

Narrative reputation will be multi-faceted.  Much is behavior based.  Some derives from the esteem your community has for your behavior (trolls, take note).  An interesting algorithm we are discussing correlates your OWN rating of things against the larger community's aggregate rating. For example, if you consistently call out content or people that everyone else thinks are fine, then your reputation may fall in that quadrant  (PS. there is MUCH thought required  here so don't quote it as gospel)

All in all, the shift in the landscape of reputation is toward an economy where you think more about the good of your community and less about your score relative to others  (it's community, not competition)

Therefore @Emily Barnett  you can see why porting over THIS forums points isn't likely to make it into the beta platform.

PS.  You will ALWAYS have your titles.  Founder/Patron:  there may be a million new people on Narrative but you will always own the distinction of being here on day one ....

Michael Farris posted:

Very likely not.  There will be an entirely new reputation engine in Narrative so porting over ranking from here isn't realistic and probably not fair to newbies coming into Narrative.

I can see how ranking won't make sense in the release reputation system, but surely some of the work folks are doing here will translate into some aspect of that new system?

Speaking of fairness - I don't think newbies would be too concerned over people already having established reputations if they have been around for many months longer than them.  That's the nature of things - newcomers have to prove themselves, old timers already have.  The unfair thing would be to wipe the slate completely clean out of concern for newbies.  If we do that then we'd have to do it over and over: newbies will be coming to the platform continuously... wanting to be fair to them will mean repeatedly forgetting the reputations of those that came before them?

Michael Farris posted:

Very likely not.  There will be an entirely new reputation engine in Narrative so porting over ranking from here isn't realistic and probably not fair to newbies coming into Narrative.

For example, once this first airdrop is done for Community participation we will simply reset everyone to zero to start over in phase 2.  That gives people who have joined recently a chance to join in on an equal footing.

BTW -- one very large difference between this Hoop.la ranking/ points system and Narrative is that Narrative reputation won't be an ever-growing  set of points.   And ranking won't be the point.  It will be the levels of your reputation.

I hate the following analogy but it is a good way to understand the difference.  Reputation is like a credit rating.  ( In the USA a 'credit score' is a near obsession for marketers and fintech seeking to wring the last penny out of customers).  Most places, the "credit rating"  just tells someone whether you are well employed and pay your bills on time.  Whether you can take on a loan or afford a large purchase.    Your score is established by time and behavior.  It can go up and it can go down.  You can repair it. Something serious like bankruptcy is a near-permanent hit. 

So, in the case of Chaucer, we have a crude version in place for buying niches.  If you don't pay on time, you can't bid for a while.  If you suggest niches and they are voted out, your right to suggest is suspended for a while.

Narrative reputation will be multi-faceted.  Much is behavior based.  Some derives from the esteem your community has for your behavior (trolls, take note).  An interesting algorithm we are discussing correlates your OWN rating of things against the larger community's aggregate rating. For example, if you consistently call out content or people that everyone else thinks are fine, then your reputation may fall in that quadrant  (PS. there is MUCH thought required  here so don't quote it as gospel)

All in all, the shift in the landscape of reputation is toward an economy where you think more about the good of your community and less about your score relative to others  (it's community, not competition)

Therefore @Emily Barnett  you can see why porting over THIS forums points isn't likely to make it into the beta platform.

PS.  You will ALWAYS have your titles.  Founder/Patron:  there may be a million new people on Narrative but you will always own the distinction of being here on day one ....

Actually based on your answer @Michael Farris i don't see  the logic why porting over this forums points isn't likely...quite the opposite.

You say that your score is based on time and behavior, but then you say that to be fair to newbies everyone will be reset to zero. This seems hypocritical. So what you are saying, is that the people whom have just put in a massive amount of time to help build this community on this forum, that it just doesn't count for anything? How is that logical or fair to the people whom have dedicated resources in both time and money, to be here early?

Thinking about the good of the community is all that has been discussed on this platform. I am not at all pleased that it gets reset on April 30. and then again at launch. And I suspect most people, even those that are just starting out on here today or next month are going to be happy about that either, as they still stand to be  much farther along than anyone starts in Q4

My understanding  was that reputation building began prior to the Q4 launch. The fact that it hasn't begun is news to me. My activity on this has been motivated by two things: building Narrative by contributing to the community  dialog that is already here, the second is building my reputation.

Now I understand that my existing activity has been reduced to just a marker for calculating how much of the 200,000 NRVE tokens will be disseminated. Although that is a lovely gesture by the Narrative team, it is not what motivated my activity. I am a big picture person, I planned to be in Narrative for the long haul.  I have been demonstrating the level of activity on the community forum that I will be putting into this platform once we have the ability to post content, BECAUSE reputation matters.

Very disappointed in the reset. Very disappointed in the lack of porting. I feel this was not transparent at all. I think it is hypocritical and devaluing to your founders and patrons to reset, and then tell us that our reputation is garnered on our time and community building activity. 

WHEN REPUTATION.

I agree with Emily.

A small difference - I was aware that the ranking system would not carry over into the actual Narrative platform.

But several community members (myself included) had expressed a while back that it would make little sense if the platform launched without extracting some form of basis for reputation from the very important activity that takes place up until launch.

I had assumed that our user accounts on the main platform would indeed be credited with some form of recognition of our actions here.  I try not to assume too much in life, but I did assume this because it seems so natural that this would be the case.

 

Malkazoid posted:

I agree with Emily.

A small difference - I was aware that the ranking system would not carry over into the actual Narrative platform.

But several community members (myself included) had expressed a while back that it would make little sense if the platform launched without extracting some form of basis for reputation from the very important activity that takes place up until launch.

I had assumed that our user accounts on the main platform would indeed be credited with some form of recognition of our actions here.  I try not to assume too much in life, but I did assume this because it seems so natural that this would be the case.

 

Well I am guilty of making this assumption. However like you @Malkazoid I am wary of the pitfalls in assumption, which is why I asked this question weeks ago on another thread and got no response. Hence, I asked the question again today. I doubt I am alone in my misunderstanding.

But even if you did know, that does not dismiss the hypocrisy. If this forum was filled with fluff content, I could see why they are unwilling to assign reputation based on it. But that is not the case. The majority of the content on here is about community building and what is good for the community at large. In fact I would go so far as saying that it is only after that they started to remind people of the 200,000 NRV token that it became a bit more about generating dialog simply for points. 

If they need to keep the two platform rank/reputation separate to be fair for the token give away, then they could simple screen shot where people rank  at and figure some way of porting reputation to chaucer, prior to resetting the Community forum.

The whole argument of being fair to newbies is bubkis to me, when you say that time on the platform is a driver to reputation.

Screen Shot 2018-04-27 at 12.40.46 PM

My post asking the core team about porting reputation to Chaucer. It had six likes so clearly other people may not be clear that the reputation on the community board has nothing to do with a person's reputation on Chaucer. There was no reply from the core team, or any community member, about my question. 

I have read a lot of what has been written about Narrative including the section on the 200,000 NRVE token give away. A lot.  I did not read that the points earned on the community forum DO NOT form your reputation. It only talks about how the NRVE tokens are to be awarded. 

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I'll stay with the statement that reputation is such a different beast in Narrative that there is nowhere to plug in something like 5743 points and #18 in ranking.  Anything bodged together to try will fail and occasion complaints.  Better to start afresh.

Think of it like starting college in the fall.  All your grades and awards from high school?  Something to be proud of, of course.  But the first day of classes is the same for all.  You build your reputation in the new system from there.

Trust me when I say you have an immense advantage moving from here to Narrative.  You won't need any headstart to have a stellar reputation.

Michael Farris posted:

I'll stay with the statement that reputation is such a different beast in Narrative that there is nowhere to plug in something like 5743 points and #18 in ranking.  Anything bodged together to try will fail and occasion complaints.  Better to start afresh.

Think of it like starting college in the fall.  All your grades and awards from high school?  Something to be proud of, of course.  But the first day of classes is the same for all.  You build your reputation in the new system from there.

Trust me when I say you have an immense advantage moving from here to Narrative.  You won't need any headstart to have a stellar reputation.

@Michael Farris

I appreciate your observation, that I and others have an immense headstart.  I have been putting my energy into building my reputation on this platform, and I have been taking it away from other platforms, both centralized and decentralized, in an effort to significantly strengthen that headstart. Hence my sharp response.

Unfortunately I don't agree with your analogy. You see I am not starting "college" in Q4. I actually started "college" in Q1, and you just told me that my tuition and my grades don't count for this semester, because you don't know how to fit them into the system yet, and because you want to be fair to the new students. Perhaps you should have explained that before you accepted enrollment in Q1.

There are human ways to port the activity on the community boards over to the chaucer reputation. There are a lot of people whom have made a significant contributions here. Proving this, one only has to look at the numerous comments on telegram discussing that the best thing Narrative has going for it right now is the community. That is us. That is what the philosophy of Narrative is all about, that the strength of any social media platform, is the content we provide. The community board HAS been content for the last few months. It should be rewarded in Chaucer. And it should not be disregarded just because the code is not in place yet. 

This decision feels very hypocritical to the very messaging that Narrative is putting out.

Not good.

Hello everyone, well this was certainly a little unexpected.... I will not elaborate on fairness points because they were quite well stated by @Emily Barnett and @Malkazoid. I agree with both of you. I also didn't expect the ranking to be 100% transported to beta but I expected there would be some sort of continuity, relationship. As it was mentioned some people spent a lot of time and energy on this and it would be only natural to reward them somehow since this is kind of system that Narrative is based on.

Why to use here on community site ranks if none of them will be translated into beta and none of them will have any influence?

Personally I think this demonstrates one aspect where @Narrative Network Team should really improve in the future and it is communication. There were already numerous cases when the key information was missing. And this is not rocket science. It would suffice just to create a well arranged thread where you put all necessary information which is not presented in white paper or better yet to update the white paper. Or some other way anything.... Not knowing the full picture is not really that entertaining and then you just wait when and from where the next surprise will pop up.

No @Michael Farris we are not arguing an analogy. We are discussing the teams decision that our activity ie. the content that we have been contributing to cannot possibly be ported to our chaucer reputation. 

This is now the second time that you have dismissed me, and given me warnings to stop expressing my view point on this community forum, because they seemingly  differ from your own.

I have given nothing but thoughtful observations that are from my perspective. I have been extremely supportive of Narrative. But I am nobody's cheerleader. I have raised very valid points regarding this topic and you are simply dismissing them. With flawed analogies, at that.

I am not a troublemaker, I am merely observant, invested, and not intimidated to voice my concerns. But more and more, from your comments, I am feeling like you perceive me as such.

On this forum, I have seen other people go head strong challenging policies that cause concern for them, not once have I seen you or any of the other @Narrative Network Team ask them to take a break, or to watch their language. I am doing nothing different.

I assure you, I will not be the only person who feels sour about their rank on the community board being reset to zero on April 30, with zero attempt to port that activity over to our reputation score on Chaucer. Even if I am the only one who speaks up about.

I also assure you, I am not being loose with my use of the word hypocrisy. And I do not like being told on multiple occasions to stop talking on a platform that claims no-censorship.

@Soňa  and @Malkazoid thank you for voicing your concerns as well. I think that if the @Narrative Network Team can create a disruptor social media platform that rewards people financially for it's activity and to create a reputation system, it can surely come up with a way to credit some of the work that we have already been contributing over to our chaucer reputation, even if it is by human evaluation. It isn't hard to figure out who has been providing quality content in an effort to build the community to date. 

 

Hi all,

I just wanted to drop in and add a bit of background from a technical perspective. In order to provide context, I need to first reiterate that the platform we are using here (Hoop.la) is an online community platform. It's really nothing like what Narrative is going to be. What we are using here is a traditional discussion forum to discuss ideas and share inspiration, which is quite different from the long-form content platform Narrative will be.

Hoop.la has a primitive points and ranking model that isn't anything like reputation. The points system is purely activity based, and there's no differentiation between good actions and bad actions (hence why you see people trying to game the system by liking everything and posting one word replies). Narrative, as you know, will be much more intelligent and complex than this. There will be ways that your reputation is determined and interpreted that goes well beyond simply adding and removing points when you do things.

While we haven't put all of the finishing touches on the actual algorithm, I can tell you that at a high level, the algorithm is a series of inputs that will ultimately produce a single output: your reputation. These inputs have a variety of factors including:

  • positive activities, e.g. writing popular content and comments, up-votes, etc.
  • activities that align with the community, e.g. voting with the community, suggesting ideas that get approval such as niches and appeals, etc.
  • negative activities, e.g. writing unpopular content/comments, down-votes, etc.
  • activities that do not align with the community, e.g. voting against the community, suggesting ideas that get rejected such as niches and appeals, etc.
  • general activity / visits / reading content
  • sharing / verifying information
  • and more...

Your reputation will likely be broken down into different facets, each of which will contribute an upper limit toward your reputation.

One key component of the algorithm will be time. The value of your positive actions on the platform will naturally diminish over time. You may build up a very high reputation, but then if you disappear from the platform for a year, you will find your reputation has gone down significantly when you return. You will need to remain active in order to remain a high rep Narrator.

Take all of that together and combine it with the fact that this community is not Narrative and none of the actions here are taking place on Narrative, it's quite natural that our discussion forum points and ranking will not be ported to Narrative. "Discussion forum activity" is not a part of the reputation algorithm because Narrative simply will not have discussion forums.

On the other hand, there are factors of reputation being tracked already on Chaucer (https://alpha.narrative.network). While the full reputation system isn't in place yet, the system is tracking reputation metrics that will ultimately play into Narrative's reputation engine. So, those actions will have an impact when the platform launches. If you're someone who votes "no" on every niche (including many of which the community ultimately approves), that will definitely have a negative impact on your reputation in Narrative. Conversely, if you are a positive influencer whose votes align with the community, who pays for niches on time, and suggest good niches, that will have a positive impact on your rep.

It has never been our intent to incorporate your activity here into Narrative, and I don't see that changing. In spite of that, we wanted to cultivate an active, vibrant, and engaged community leading up to the platform launch. That's why we launched the Community Rewards program: we wanted to further incentivize (and reward!) all of you for being a part of the Narrative community at these early stages.

I'm sorry that some of you have assumed your activity on these forums would somehow be ported over to Narrative, but I don't believe anyone from the Narrative team ever implied or insinuated that they would. I would ask that you just give the system a chance to work. Once Narrative launches, you will be able to very quickly build upon your Chaucer reputation and I believe this discussion will be long forgotten.

We really appreciate all of your support and passion for Narrative, and even though I don't think this is the answer some of you are looking for, I hope you all continue to participate as you have been. You're an important part of Narrative, and we appreciate you're all here with us from the beginning.

Brian

Harj posted:

I have had to write to them (Bitebtc) to help me as I never recieve any verification email ever!!! and I have sent a few requests and checked my email inside and out! nothing

I think that you meant to post to the bitebtc topic....

Not sure what email address you are using. Those of us using GMAIL got immediate responses.  Those using HOTMAIL never got a replay at all. Not sure which you use if either of them. Can you post over to the appropriate topic and I will continue to help you. 

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